Waterproof jacket

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22camels

22camels

Active Member
I hear that even eVent will lose its properties if not washed and reproofed regularly? How practical is this on tour?

The way I see it is no fully waterproof jacket will be sufficiently breathable in temperatures above 15 degrees, so it boils down to how much riding I'm planning on doing in temperatures below this. For instance, I am sure it would be useless in SE Asia.

I think I will stick to my waterproof unbreathable cheap jackets for now and stress test them to see how much breathability really matters to me. Then if necessary I might shell out for an SP Elite 2.1 which does look really good.
 
When you say regularly, I do mine every 18 months. On tour, when wet, if you've access to a tumbledryer, 20 mins on low will re-activate the proofing.
 

nappadang

Über Member
Location
Gateshead
Waterproof is easy and cheap. Waterproof and really breathable is difficult and expensive. That's why eVent is so expensive - it really does achieve 100% waterproof with incredible breathability.

Gore AS is almost as good, and a bit less expensive.
I agree 100%. eVent is the best breathable, waterproof fabric going.
Montane did do an eVent cycling jacket but not sure if they still do.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
Yes, my eVent jacket was a Montane. Sadly I couldn't find another one when I looked last year. I still have my old one, and it is still just as good, just rather tatty-looking six years on.
 
Location
Midlands
I know nothing about the pros and cons of the various types of waterproof jackets - however I am on my third Gore jacket in the last 30years - all three have kept me dry in some pretty torrential sustained weather conditions eg New Zealand SI >50mm/hour, ditto Sweden Norway Germany EStonia and lots of other places where the rain didnt last all day - maybe I do not attempt to cycle as fast as some folk and therefore do not build up the internal condition thats cause the wetness most seem to suffer from - occasionally a bit clammy when up 10% 250+ hills fully loaded-however, when it is raining as hard as that no matter how "breathable" a garment is there is no way that moisture is going to get out

Generally been not cheap at around 140-160 a time but all have lasted for 10yrs - £14-15/year or less makes them a good investment

Edit - thread has caused me to make a mental inventory of all the massive downpours that i have experienced on tour - and recall the often quoted "in the summer you dont need to carry a full set of good waterproofs" - blaggards all
 
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CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
Generally been not cheap at around 140-160 a time but all have lasted for 10yrs - £14-15/year or less makes them a good investment
That's how I look at it too. I tend to change at five year intervals, just because they start to look tatty, but a £200 jacket every five years is less than a quid a week.

Edit - thread has caused me to make a mental inventory of all the massive downpours that i have experienced on tour - and recall the often quoted "in the summer you dont need to carry a full set of good waterproofs" - blaggards all
Heh, yeah. That said, a recent 12-day cycling holiday saw me wearing waterproofs exactly twice: once for ten minutes. The other time, though, was all day.
 

coffeejo

Ælfrēd
Location
West Somerset
re: breathable materials, I run to hot and would rather get wet from rain than be clammy and stuffy inside my clothes. It makes me want to rip my skin off. Other people don't have this problem. I envy them. Apart from anything, it means they have a far wider range of jackets to choose from and can happily spend less with fewer drawbacks.
 

andrew_s

Legendary Member
Location
Gloucester
These days, pretty much everything sold as waterproof is waterproof (except for Paramo, see below). Where jackets differ is in breathability, water repellency, and design.

Poor design will see rain getting in through the front zip, pockets, vents, neck etc. A good company will do a lot of testing of assorted designs in actual real conditions before releasing a product, whilst a poor company will just come out with something that looks right.

Water repellency is what makes water on the surface of a jacket bead up into droplets that roll off, rather than just forming a layer of water over the surface of the jacket (at which point breathability stops). It works best when clean and new, and different brands will have different tolerances for wear and contamination.

Fabric breathability is what prevents sweat and condensation from building up on the inside of the jacket and getting your inner layer wet. It's not magic, and will only allow water vapour out at a fairly moderate rate compared with the rate at which hard riding will generate sweat. It is after all perfectly possible to saturate a cotton T-shirt with nothing over the top, and you can't get more breathable than nothing.
The most breathable current fabrics are eVent, Goretex Active Shell, and Polartec Neoshell. These are breathable enough to use as a windshell on a cold day without getting wet, provided you don't work too hard. There's a decent round up of assorted fabrics on the Ellis Brigham website. An advantage (at a cost) of Goretex is that manufacturers must submit their designs for approval before being allowed to use the Gore name. This filters out the bad designs. EVent is available to manufacturers in an unbranded form, so some of the best "own brand" fabrics may actually be eVent. I suspect Endura;s "PTFE" as

Paramo:
This is not actually waterproof, as you will find out if you sit in a puddle whilst wearing a pair of Paramo trousers. However, it is generally pretty much rainproof , pretty much condensation proof, and is considerably more breathable than anything else. On the downside, it has a significant amount of extra warmth. so it would be like putting an extra thermal base layer on at the same time as your regular waterproof.
It works by having a loose water repellent liner layer, maybe 1 mm thick, that moves liquid water away from your skin or inner layers to its outside, where it can't get you wet. This is covered by a simple pertex windproof layer whose main purpose is to prevent raindrops hitting the liner layer hard enough to just force their way through (as in puddle water).
Because of the way it works, it's long lasting in that any tears can just be sewed up without affecting waterproofing, and the water repellency on which it relies can be fairly easily restored using a wash-in repellent (Nikwax).
Problems with it are weight, packed bulk, warmth, and that on rare occasions the repellency can be swamped so the it becomes waterlogged and fairly useless. This is usually due to either no maintenance (no washing/reproofing for too long), or excessive maintenance (reproofing every wash, matting the fibres on the outside of the liner together with accumulated Nikwax).

I found the Montane Stormrider (eVent, no longer available) the best jacket I've used so far, until I wrote it off in a flooded pothole. I replaced it with a Sugoi RSX (Neoshell), and also considered the Gore Alp-X 2.0 (Goretex Active). Paramo is too warm for me until it gets pretty cold.
 
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22camels

22camels

Active Member
Thanks for the great replies! How important is mechanical venting then, for breathability? And which vents are most important - I guess pit zips are number one but some jackets have cuffs you can open / vents at the back / pocket vents..

Is there any Polartec Neoshell jacket out there with mechanical vents? Also are there any reliable figures comparing the breathability of Neoshell vs eVent, I heard something like 5:1, seems a lot?

How much does perspiration depend on the ambient outside temperature? It sounds to me like a less breathable jacket would just mean a smaller range of comfortable operating temperatures. So a moderately breathable jacket, I would be comfortable say up to 10 deg C if I don't ride too hard, and would have to accept getting wet (either from the outside or inside) above this temperature. Whereas a very breathable jacket I might be able to wear comfortably up to 15 degrees. Is this too simplistic?

It's all a bit unsatisfactory.. for touring one normally prefers something tried and tested, whereas here we are in the midst of an arms race of modern materials marketed at inflated prices.. perhaps in ten or twenty years the technology will have matured..
 
Location
Midlands
It's all a bit unsatisfactory.. for touring one normally prefers something tried and tested, whereas here we are in the midst of an arms race of modern materials marketed at inflated prices.. perhaps in ten or twenty years the technology will have matured..

It is a case of one jacket does not fit all - so to speak :smile: - be it price, warmth or lack of it, breathability, fit "technical features" pit zips, drop tail etc
 

Spoked Wheels

Legendary Member
Location
Bournemouth
I have a few winter jackets but most aren't waterproof. My sister brought me one from Norway which didn't leave up to the test. I think it was H+H or something similar. It is thin and light so ideal for me.

My wife bought me just recently a North Face jacket, thin and light and I tested it once in the rain and on a long walk and it was fine. As for breathability it wasn't too bad as there was a little bit of moisture inside after a 9km walk but nothing that I could feel in my body.

I tend to keep away from riding in the rain but I'm curious about some of the names mentioned here as I'll be going touring in April and I want to take something to keep me dry. Over the next few months I'll know if the The North Face jacket is up to the job.
 

montage

God Almighty
Location
Bethlehem
Had a look at the castelli gabba jersey / jacket?

Personally, I believe that if it rains, you get wet. If you wear a waterproof jacket (I have a gortex shell that stops even the worst rainfall), you are reduced to a crawling pace so that you don't sweat yourself in a raisin. What makes the difference is being windproof. Wet + windproof = warm.
 
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