andy_wrx
Über Member
Rather than "What would Lance do?", I fear it's more a case of "What did Lance 'do'? And what will he 'do' this time?"
Viva Espana
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kennykool
Well-Known Member
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Andy....Lance will win the Giro - thats what he'll do!!!!!
Cryptic name Tete....need to think about that - any clues?
Must apologies for my lack of knowledge on the Drug front...I am new to all these Acronyms for different drugs and such like!!!
Cryptic name Tete....need to think about that - any clues?
Must apologies for my lack of knowledge on the Drug front...I am new to all these Acronyms for different drugs and such like!!!
OP
OP
Tetedelacourse
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kennykool said:
No apologies necessary - once you have a wider understanding of the sport you'll no doubt remove your RTGs and see the cold light of day
itisaboutthebike
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You've only got to look at the CEM website to see whats(still) going down..............and these are just amatures (supposadly)
some interestijg threads from guys in the know...................
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=18509&highlight=Landis
some interestijg threads from guys in the know...................
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=18509&highlight=Landis
kennykool
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Rose Tinted Glasses...like Horn Rimmed Glasses....Like it Tete.
I'm fighting the urge to become a cynic of Cycling. Ity is hard saying as I read about a different doping story almost daily on this forum.
I'll have my RTG's on as long as possible tho
I'm fighting the urge to become a cynic of Cycling. Ity is hard saying as I read about a different doping story almost daily on this forum.
I'll have my RTG's on as long as possible tho
itisaboutthebike
Über Member
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If you read the CEM forum I think they'll become less tinted...........may even become completely clear.
You really think that someone can win the Tour clean when some people are on PED's which give 10-15% performance gains ? Thats huge. Get real.............
You really think that someone can win the Tour clean when some people are on PED's which give 10-15% performance gains ? Thats huge. Get real.............
kennykool
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itisaboutthebike....good link. Some interesting stuff. Maybe it is possible to dope and NOT get caught. The guy on the thread certainly has a lot of knowledge on the subject. Infact so much so that it is as if David Walsh had written it!!!!!
I am still standing by every sportsman and congratulating them when the are winners! I will not have a bad word to say about them unti, they are PROVED to be cheats!
RTG's - everyone should have a pair. Might even get CC RTG'S made up
I am still standing by every sportsman and congratulating them when the are winners! I will not have a bad word to say about them unti, they are PROVED to be cheats!
RTG's - everyone should have a pair. Might even get CC RTG'S made up
itisaboutthebike
Über Member
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- Somewhere up his own jacksey
There was an interesting snippet on the recent 20 great moments from the Tour. It featured a soundbite from Lemond after having been beaten (yah trounced) by Indurain in one of the TT's.............can't remember exactly what he said, but something like "it's like he's(Indurain) riding with 3 legs". And the reaction of Lemond was of complete disbelief.
I'm sure it was about '91 when EPO came on the scene..............
I'm sure it was about '91 when EPO came on the scene..............
Chuffy
Veteran
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Yup!kennykool said:
Of course retrospective tests don't count, do they...
kennykool
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Chuffy - Retrospective tests do count and I would take them on board.
itisaboutthebike.....you saying that Indurian was on the drugs?
itisaboutthebike.....you saying that Indurian was on the drugs?
itisaboutthebike
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Kennycool - have you ridden any Alpine (or Pyrenean) climbs ? Or watched the Tour in the Alps ?
I think it was '97 on the Glandon - Zabel came up it like he was a madman(along with 3 others in the 'break') - and he isn't a climber(and at the peak of his career)
I didn't think it was possible to go that fast up a climb.
And sincec Zabel has confessed to using EPO in '97. If he could go that fast what were the others on ?
I think it was '97 on the Glandon - Zabel came up it like he was a madman(along with 3 others in the 'break') - and he isn't a climber(and at the peak of his career)
I didn't think it was possible to go that fast up a climb.
And sincec Zabel has confessed to using EPO in '97. If he could go that fast what were the others on ?
kennykool
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itisaboutthebike - firstly it's KOOL with a K
Secondly - I understand that doping exists ok. What i continue to say is that I enjoy watching these guys "sprint" up a massive climb. It amazes me, it really does. It amazes me at what human beings can do and it will continue to amaze me until they are proved to be cheats - if they get proved to be a cheat then my opinion of said rider will change.
Until such time I will enjoy the spectacle and the show that these cyslist put on!
Secondly - I understand that doping exists ok. What i continue to say is that I enjoy watching these guys "sprint" up a massive climb. It amazes me, it really does. It amazes me at what human beings can do and it will continue to amaze me until they are proved to be cheats - if they get proved to be a cheat then my opinion of said rider will change.
Until such time I will enjoy the spectacle and the show that these cyslist put on!
itisaboutthebike
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The look on Lemonds face said it all...............
OP
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Tetedelacourse
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itisaboutthebike said:
Ah, now, y'see Indurain I found it harder to believe than with the others. Partly because of his style of riding - he flattened his opponents, I mean trounced them over 3 weeks, not so obviously explosive as we're led to believe PEDs do. But also partly because he was so quiet, unassuming etc
But then I ask myself well his main adversaries were all on the juice so he MUST have been. His reaction to Riis' "confession" smacked of guilt too although I can't recall exactly what it was, just that I was suspicious at the time.Got to remember too though that everyone reacts differently to EPO. Some respond better than others, so it's not necessarily fair to say "look at how Zabel's performance improved, ergo whoever beat him must have been on it".
For me it's more about the organisation of it, the culture of it, the Festina affair, the fact that from top to bottom riders were and are still now being caught.
andy_wrx
Über Member
Of course, if we believe what Willy Voet wrote in Breaking the Chain,the Festina set-up was designed to be for the riders' own good.
They were doping because they thought everyone else was doping, so they had to dope to keep up.
So they were getting their own dope, working-out what they had to take, working-out their own dosage regimes, etc.
The team manager and doctor, Bruno Roussel and Eric Rijckaert, felt that this was dangerous, that the riders were monkeying around, not knowing what they were doing, that they were going to affect their health.
So knowing they couldn't stop them doping, they decided the way to do it was to have organised doping, under team control and medical supervision.
The riders would contribute to a dope kitty, the doctor and soigneurs would administer it, the riders wouldn't mess-around with any other drugs outside the scheme.
So a good thing all round - good for the riders health, just what the team doctor is for...?
I'm sure this sort of organised practice still goes on.
The doctors and soigneurs are administering vitamin injections, all sorts of fancy embrocations and massage potions.
Some of these will be legal and legitimate, others will not.
Some of the riders will just take what they're given, not confront the idea that it's doping, then claim with a happy conscience that they're clean.
They were doping because they thought everyone else was doping, so they had to dope to keep up.
So they were getting their own dope, working-out what they had to take, working-out their own dosage regimes, etc.
The team manager and doctor, Bruno Roussel and Eric Rijckaert, felt that this was dangerous, that the riders were monkeying around, not knowing what they were doing, that they were going to affect their health.
So knowing they couldn't stop them doping, they decided the way to do it was to have organised doping, under team control and medical supervision.
The riders would contribute to a dope kitty, the doctor and soigneurs would administer it, the riders wouldn't mess-around with any other drugs outside the scheme.
So a good thing all round - good for the riders health, just what the team doctor is for...?
I'm sure this sort of organised practice still goes on.
The doctors and soigneurs are administering vitamin injections, all sorts of fancy embrocations and massage potions.
Some of these will be legal and legitimate, others will not.
Some of the riders will just take what they're given, not confront the idea that it's doping, then claim with a happy conscience that they're clean.
