Vehicular Cycling Reality

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GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
OK. I'll try and remember that when a boy racer in a souped up Focus/Golf is centimetres from my rear and leaning on the horn when I'm doing 5 mph in primary and ignoring the cycle lane to my left to stop the silly overtake.

Do me a favour? Send my wife and daughter some flowers and tell them I was in the right if I don't survive your advice.

How ridiculous!
Instead of what? being knocked off your bike by the same idiot & run over by him & the vehicle behind? please get a clue! As I said my wife finds that using primary at 5-10mph is most effective. If the guy is on 'leaning on the horn' 5cm from your back tyre that means he's following you, rather hitting you with his wing mirror at 30 or 40mph.
 
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middleagecyclist

middleagecyclist

Call me MAC
actually I didn't ignore your questions. I answered them. i can't help it if the answers don't suit you....As for making cycling attractive to others; I do this by the simple act of getting on my bike and riding it as often as i am able utterly deaf to the cries of those who tell me it is unsafe. Seems to have inspired quite a few to join me.

So the answer to my question on how to make cycling more attractive to occasional/irregular cyclists and so increase the pitifully small cycling modal share in the UK is to...cycle and others will follow?

Is there nothing to be done with the road layout and cycle infrastructure at all? Nothing? Not even one teeny weeny bit? Just teach the cyclist to cope with the environment as it is and tell the concerned parents their fears are illogical and unfounded. Seems a rather resigned and sad approach to be honest.
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
So the answer to my question on how to make cycling more attractive to occasional/irregular cyclists and so increase the pitifully small cycling modal share in the UK is to...cycle and others will follow?
The fundmental problem is that you have a chicken & egg situation. You need more cyclists on the roads to make the motoring public more tolerant. You need a more tolerant motoring public to get more cyclists on the roads. When I test rode a few bents in the Netherlands I wasn't in an area which had cycle paths, I was on the road & you know what I was astonished to find I felt like the most important vehicle on the road. So what we need to do is you work out how to fix the police service so that the current laws are applied properly & maybe add some more laws to make motorists even more aware of their responsibilities as the drivers.
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
So the answer to my question on how to make cycling more attractive to occasional/irregular cyclists and so increase the pitifully small cycling modal share in the UK is to...cycle and others will follow?

Is there nothing to be done with the road layout and cycle infrastructure at all? Nothing? Not even one teeny weeny bit? Just teach the cyclist to cope with the environment as it is and tell the concerned parents their fears are illogical and unfounded. Seems a rather resigned and sad approach to be honest.

Really. Which do you think had more effect on the number of cyclists in London. 7/7 bombers or cycling superhighways? I started cycle commuting in London in the 90's and the cycling levels there now were unimaginable then. Safety in numbers... gotta love those terrorists and the bomb dodgers they spawned.

My personal number one priority, after "just get on your bikes and ride people", is getting traffic speeds and volumes reduced. After that it is in providing people with access to training/coaching and mentoring so they can ride on the roads as they are, as I will be an old man before dutch cycling comes to my town, or yours. Then comes getting decent enforcement of the existing traffic laws prioritised according to risk. With the exception of seeing a few ASL's put in and the odd toucan I've almost no interest in ill-advisedly superimposing a pile of shite "cycling infrastructure" on top of the perfectly good infrastructure we already have, called "the roads". It wont fit the streets, no one can tell me how it will be paid for and no one will ever vote for it. Nor am i interested in anything that boils down to stealing even more space from the poor benighted pedestrian so cyclists can move more freely.

and I spend rather too many hours of my limited free time working in collaboration with others, in local and county cycle campaigns, to achieve these aims.

but please do carry on posting yo0ur clips. I'm sure it makes you feel better. Especially about us traitors to the cause.
 
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middleagecyclist

middleagecyclist

Call me MAC
...If the guy is on 'leaning on the horn' 5cm from your back tyre that means he's following you, rather hitting you with his wing mirror at 30 or 40mph.

That may well be the case (although I wonder how patient he will be and for how long before he squeezes through at some point?). But do you really think the occasional/irregular cyclist is going to enjoy/tolerate that kind of experience and will put themselves in a similar situation where it is likely to happen again? I don't.

I am not that concerned about my cycling experience. I will happily take primary if I feel it is needed. In the video I didn't really feel it was required. There were two wide lanes and an normal width cycle lane. I was doing 20 (ish) and the traffic was likely 10-15 mph faster. There were no pinch points/blind spots ahead. There was no immediate need for primary and secondary (on the edge of the cycle lane) was fine IMO. Trouble was the driver felt I should have been in even further and so was justifed in squeezing past. He said as much when he stated I was "too close" to the edge of the lane. The infrastructure gives him this excuse for his actions IMO.

Or do you excuse his driving because I was not in primary?
 

Hip Priest

Veteran
I take your point about cycle lanes. Many motorists feel that as long as they're on the right of the white line, it's a safe pass. If there were no cycle lane, he'd probably have given you more room.
 
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middleagecyclist

middleagecyclist

Call me MAC
I take your point about cycle lanes. Many motorists feel that as long as they're on the right of the white line, it's a safe pass. If there were no cycle lane, he'd probably have given you more room.
Yes!

I'd rather have no cycle lanes than the crap we are provided with but I'd much, much rather have decent infrastructure along with all the other changes Greg mentions. I don't think we are that far apart and certainly don't consider anyone here a "traitor".

In the vid I was cycling in secondary when the pass occured. There was no need for anything else looking at the road ahead. I wasn't on the edge of the cycle lane because it was there, but rather because it happened to there. I wasn't choosing to use it. All other things being equal I would have been in that position if had never ever exisited, but still WVM justified his bad driving because of the lane though and my position on the edge of it.

So, I wasn't really using the infrastruture (see the start of the vid) but it still gave him his excuse.
 

davefb

Guru
thought I recognised that road ( I used to work near the derby arms).. the problem afaik is that it's marked as two lanes and works as two lanes for a lot, but it really isn't, so the cars are 'close' all the way down.
so either you take primary , which frankly I'd not like doing as it generally is very busy, so chance staying down the side.
*but* what annoys me about 'cycling infrastructure' and lack of joined up thinking is that there are a number of radial roads out from the city centre, and more than enough space to pick one and mark it with what I suppose you'd call a cycling highway and move cyclists off cheetham hill road .. I hate the idea of 'marking everything' in order to get lots of 'cycling miles' but none of it 'serves the purpose' of helping cyclists much..
In fact, that van seems to go down one of the 'nice rat runs' for when the main road is busy ;)
 
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