Van has flat battery again!

[Time Waster]

So a month or so we had our van serviced and a new battery. It was struggling to start and we had to keep the charger attached to get it going. That was until the new battery about 2 months ago.

Today we were going to go out in it for the first time in two weeks and it wouldn't start. It's had two hours charging and it started ok but when turned off it had a whining almost alarm sound from the engine

Back on charge again, but why? Battery was new and the vans had new engine last year and service picked up nothing. They put the battery in so would have checked it was ok surely? A good local garage.

I fear it's not charging the battery which could mean alternator. We are not using it except at the weekend but last weekend we were away by by train. So two weeks without a run out. It should not be enough to get a flat battery, right? Gotta be something else.

It's got a split charge leisure battery, could that be an issue? That was put in but by a pro converter with experienced auto electrician on the books. No issues in 4v years.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Mine are dodgy battery, dodgy alternator, something is draining the battery / loose connection or the split charge leisure battery system is doing something it v shouldn't.

Anything else? How likely are each of these at being the issue?

We're putting it in for MOT next week at the garage that serviced it and put the battery in. I'll tell them the issue and ask them to take a look. In the meantime I'm going to try and go for a drive to charge it then tomorrow put the charger on it again then again Thursday next week before it goes into the garage on Friday.

 

[Electric_Andy]

I think your suspicions are correct. I'm no expert but there are plenty on Youtube to help you check if you've got a parastic drain or how to test your alternator. You can get a multi-meter for under 20 quid which might be a worthwhile investment. If you eventually do get it started and take it for a run, and then it starts easily again, then it's unlikely your alternator is completly duff. But they often become less efficient and function a bit for a while before they give up completely. But it can take you by surprise, as I found out in my Fiesta coming back from the Zoo, it was not too bad before that but after a 45 min trip I lost 90% of power and my lights; luckily I was able to limp home in the dark with no lights!

Turns out my alternator was bad, but probably made worse by the fact that my remote wire to my subwoofer in the boot had become disconnnected, so the sub was not getting a signal to turn off. So every time I drove, the battery was requiring a full charge every time and (I suspect) making the alternator work overtime every time I drove for about a month

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Two weeks is a bit short but not by too much. Particularly if when you do use it the trips are short and not really topping up the battery. A solar charger you leave plugged in will sort it. I have a 5W one and outside of winter it keeps the battery topped up for weeks and weeks if I’m not using it.

 

[OldShep]

Without a multimeter you’re just guessing. You’ve lived a sheltered life not to own one at your age. 🤭
Two weeks sitting with a new battery is no time at all.

 

[CXRAndy]

Could be literally anything. The correct phrase is ' Parasitic current drain '

Without knowledge of how to diagnose the fault, just stick it on a battery maintainer all the time. That's what I do with my vehicles I don't regularly use.

If you fancy diagnosis, you need a digital multimeter, unplug the negative lead on the battery, connect meter in current load. Wait for car to go to 'sleep'. This can take Upto 1hour. Measure the current being drawn.

Modern vehicles should be around 30mA or less(ideally less than 20mA)
.

Anything over 50mA would lead to a discharged battery in around 2 weeks.

Then it's a case of tracing the current drain through all the connected circuits.

Much easier to stick battery maintenance device on and forget about it

 

[Time Waster]

Without a multimeter you’re just guessing. You’ve lived a sheltered life not to own one at your age. 🤭
Two weeks sitting with a new battery is no time at all.

Not sheltered just a contacts list that includes contractors to do things for me so I can get on with what I really want to do such as ride a bike, go hiking, be with the family (ok perhaps not the last one).

This is going to the garage soon anyway so it'll be be sorted, just looking for potential causes / problems so the garage doesn't bamboozle me completely.

Besides, do I really want to chase the causes around myself even with a multimeter? (I live two miles away from my parents, have for the last 20 odd years and if I wanted one I'd find one there). It's a day van with some electrics so OEM stuff to go wrong plus after market extras too.

It's got the indications to me of alternator simply not charging the battery up, but I've not driven it for 2 weeks. My old astra used to lose power steering when the battery got low due to faulty alternator. Something about high drain parts gets cut off first. But I've not noticed that with the vivaro but then it might not have that.

I don't know enough so guessing. If you're guessing it's time for the experts. I was hoping there's one here

 

[fossyant]

If a diode fails on an alternator it turns itself into a motor - i.e. will reverse the flow of power when the vehicle is switched off. Can you hear a constant high pitched sound coming from the engine compartment when off ? Also check if alternator is warm (after the van has been off a while).

 

[DRM]

Bad alternator, so not charging, something drawing current, or bad earth to chassis or engine to chassis

 

[Lookrider]

No van mechanic so please take with pick o salt
I had a battery run down and replaced with another which also failed in no time
The local garage advised to take it to a dealer as manufacturers " leave " repaires that only the dealer can sort ( very apt for the dealer )
Anyways the dealers computer said it was a BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM error that I as reset and now the 2nd battery was all good ?
No idea how this happens but it cost me around £500
£170 of that was to put the computer in and for the computer to say the issue ??
I told them the battery's flat ...why extort £170 from me for a computer to say " the battery is flat " cars ehh

 

[Gwylan]

So a month or so we had our van serviced and a new battery. It was struggling to start and we had to keep the charger attached to get it going. That was until the new battery about 2 months ago.

Today we were going to go out in it for the first time in two weeks and it wouldn't start. It's had two hours charging and it started ok but when turned off it had a whining almost alarm sound from the engine

Back on charge again, but why? Battery was new and the vans had new engine last year and service picked up nothing. They put the battery in so would have checked it was ok surely? A good local garage.

I fear it's not charging the battery which could mean alternator. We are not using it except at the weekend but last weekend we were away by by train. So two weeks without a run out. It should not be enough to get a flat battery, right? Gotta be something else.

It's got a split charge leisure battery, could that be an issue? That was put in but by a pro converter with experienced auto electrician on the books. No issues in 4v years.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Mine are dodgy battery, dodgy alternator, something is draining the battery / loose connection or the split charge leisure battery system is doing something it v shouldn't.

Anything else? How likely are each of these at being the issue?

We're putting it in for MOT next week at the garage that serviced it and put the battery in. I'll tell them the issue and ask them to take a look. In the meantime I'm going to try and go for a drive to charge it then tomorrow put the charger on it again then again Thursday next week before it goes into the garage on Friday.

We had similar problems.
Ours is 07 but there are all sorts of bits and pieces that draw power.
We have a charge splitter that should keep the starter battery charged at the expense of the domestic bank
It does the job a bit too well
There is something that will run the domestic batteries down in a couple of weeks.
Solved that by installing an isolator on the domestic circuit
Then as a security device I installed a remote controlled relay on the starter battery. This means that I lock the van with the key remote. Then use the remote control to isolate the starter battery.
To all intents and purposes the van is now a dead block of metal.
Did panic when I got home, first time, and checked the tracker and got no reply. Then realised, it has it's own supply now.
An unexpected outcome of this is that whatever was using the power isn't any more.

Culprits are the radio, the cruise control and the instrument display. That holds data like fuel consumption and the clock.

 

[CXRAndy]

It's got the indications to me of alternator simply not charging the battery up, but I've not driven it for 2 weeks. My old astra used to lose power steering when the battery got low due to faulty alternator. Something about high drain parts gets cut off first. But I've not noticed that with the vivaro but then it might not have that.

I don't know enough so guessing. If you're guessing it's time for the experts.

Alternator is easy to diagnose.

Even if you drive a vehicle everyday, if the journeys are only a few miles this will gradually drain the battery. A vehicle needs at least 20 to 30 mins of driving after starting to recharge the battery drain just from the starter motor.

Having after market stuff will also drain the battery. Modern vehicles are not like old ones, you cant even compare different vehicles, they all have different strategy re battery drain. Old cars literally disconnected all power connections to the battery, modern vehicles with microprocessors in the modules go to 'sleep' like a laptop.

 

[CXRAndy]

No van mechanic so please take with pick o salt
I had a battery run down and replaced with another which also failed in no time
The local garage advised to take it to a dealer as manufacturers " leave " repaires that only the dealer can sort ( very apt for the dealer )
Anyways the dealers computer said it was a BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM error that I as reset and now the 2nd battery was all good ?
No idea how this happens but it cost me around £500
£170 of that was to put the computer in and for the computer to say the issue ??
I told them the battery's flat ...why extort £170 from me for a computer to say " the battery is flat " cars ehh

You were fleeced by the dealer.

That's why I bought my own diagnostic tool, so I can do these checks and hopefully find the faults. I like to do basic stuff, but I also like to know before taking it to a dealer if ever needed

 

[Lookrider]

Your probably correct

I used my local family garage for long time
It was them who advised to take it to a dealer as there diagnostics suggested it was a dealer only repair ( battery management system )that could not be done by the local garage ??

 

[CXRAndy]

This is what you expect to do tracing down a parasitic battery drain


View: https://youtu.be/8Vxc3lY5yEw?si=tICLtJrX0hgcn9c8

 

[Time Waster]

If a diode fails on an alternator it turns itself into a motor - i.e. will reverse the flow of power when the vehicle is switched off. Can you hear a constant high pitched sound coming from the engine compartment when off ? Also check if alternator is warm (after the van has been off a while).

There is that sound. It does stop after a minute though.