URGENT HELP PLEASE!!!! Solicitors query - Can I get out of this?

[punkypossum]

I'm starting to agree, housebuying appears to be one of the most stressful things in the world... As some of you will know, my offer on a property was accepted and in order to be able to move quickly and not having a solicitor lined up, I decided that it might be best to go with the ones linked to the estate agent... Amongst millions of other forms signed today and being overwhelmed by piles of paper, I also signed the agreement for the solicitors (Countrywide). The front page states the legal fees as one big figure of £608(incl vat), which although slightly more expensive than some of the quotes I've heard from friends, appeared fairly reasonable and worth it for the no hassle. So I signed up and paid £200 upfront. Unfortunately, I since read the smallprint on the back, and they charge lots and lots of additional fees, which means altogether they will end up costing about £1200 pounds (plus the searches) which is absolutely ridiculous (it transpires that even a 2minute phonecall I got from them this afternoon to "prevent money laundering" is charged at £19.95!!!) Also, I have since googled the reviews for Countrywide solicitors which are pretty horrendous to put it mildly.

And yes,I should have shopped round solicitors, but it all happened so quickly, and I should have read the back straight away, and I could kick myself for not noticing it, so please don't rub it in, but all I looked at was the big box on the front that said "fees +vat"....

Now, I know that everything else you sign up for, insurance, etc. has a cooling off period, but this document does not mention anything like it (not even in the smallest smallprint), but states that you are bound by the document once signed. Is this true? Is there no way of cancelling?

I'm going to speak to my mortgage advisor first thing in the morning, to see what can be done (I'm quite happy to lose the £20 for the phonecall if necessary), but do I have a leg to stand on to get out of this agreement and to get my £200 back???

Please help!!!!

 

[mickle]

Don't panic! Your signature, on any document, has a cooling off period built in.

 

[Hacienda71]

I would be surprised if there is no termination clause. Even if there is though it is likely that you would have to cover any abortive fees incurred to date by them (Hence the £200). Some of the additional costs they quote will be fees for searches which you will incur with any solicitor. The total does seem a little on the high side compared to a small town practice but no more than a regional city firm would charge. You could ask the law society for advice re solicitors terms of engagement but as a solicitor once pointed out to me "The Law Society is an organization setup to protect solicitors from the general public" Sorry to not be more positive. Countrywide once misold me an endowment policy i was in a similar situation to yourself loads of paperwork etc.but they did pay back in full with interest as soon as i made an issue of it, as a PLC they don't want bad publicity. If you throw yourself at their mercy the worst they can say is no.

 

[punkypossum]

I would be surprised if there is no termination clause. Even if there is though it is likely that you would have to cover any abortive fees incurred to date by them (Hence the £200). Some of the additional costs they quote will be fees for searches which you will incur with any solicitor.

I wish!!! The searches are on top of that!!!! The additional fees include £172.50 to cover legal fees work carried out for the lender. £97.75 for the preparation of the stamp duty document (which fortunately shouldn't apply to me as the property is under £125,000), £19.95 for anti money laundering check and fraud check for each customer instructing them and each customer benefitting (including 3rd parties that need verifying). Chancel repair insurance of £19.99 and £5.25 premium, £28.75 for archiving documents, £50 professional fee, £150 pounds on account of third party payments on completion, non-specified payments to 3rd parties, a £50 pound fee that is refundable if the sale completes (so I have discounted that), £46 per chaps transfer....

That's 492.44 minimum, and depending on how many transfers and phone calls are involved, this could go up considerably!!! Plus the £608.35 plus the cost for the searches which they apparently can't specify but could be considerable according to the small print!!!!!

Mickle, where do I find something official that states that any document has a cooling off period? I know it applies to online, telephone and doorstep sales, but this is different...

 

[Bigtwin]

Don't panic! Your signature, on any document, has a cooling off period built in.

No it doesn't. Unless you are contracting under the distance selling regulations, once you have signed you are locked in.

However, you do have a right to "terminate the retainer" with the solicitor, which is legalese for ending the contract; do this in writing. They will have the right to charge you for any work already done, and costs they have incurred (searches etc), but that's it. If they do charge, and you think the costs unreasonable, there is a mechanism to challenge this via the Law Society. The solicitor has a right to have half the sum paid up front while the LawSoc looks at it, but they cannot increase the bill at the end of the process. Details are on the LawSoc website.

It's a simple process, but if you don't feel confident, go see your local CAB.

 

[punkypossum]

Argh...I just had a browse on the law society website, and indeed it states that I can terminate at any time... Surely, with this having been signed less than 24hours ago, they should not be able to charge me too much? It's not like they can have carried out much work apart from this phone call which I got at 6.20pm?

 

[Davywalnuts]

Hi PP!

I am a mortgage broker and have dealt with, amongst alot of other solicitors Countrywide, not through choice though I must hasten.

I echo alot what Hacienda71 has said.

Now, this may or may not be in this case, but solicitors will send though is (or on the back in small print) a tariff of charges to detail what you "could" be liable for. In most cases for a normal freehold purchase, most of the extra charges are not appliable, but will send the fear of shoot up alot of people. For leashold purchases (and I dont know what you are doing) there can be a few extra charges applicable. Obviously, without seeing this form, I cant comment to you if this is the case, but if your mortgage advisor is worth his/her salt then they should be able to clear this up with you and the solicitors without out any further cost to you. But solicitors have to make you aware of "all" charges "possibly" applicable. Just like a lender will have to do the same.

I must admit, this "money laundering" call seems a piss take as you would normally have to send through or have certified for them a proof of ID & address. What is normal practice.

Your £608+vat will no doubt include a referal fee (around £100 or so) to the Estate Agents, hence the reason why they referred you to Countrywide! You have probably also signed a form expressing your consent for the Estate Agent to earn money out of this. May I also ask if the Mortgage Adviser is the Estate Agents too? If so, the money they earn, which can be a lot and can be payable to you, partially or whole, you would have signed over no doubt.

With regards to changing solicitors and your £200 up front fee, well, most solicitors, and no doubt Countrywide in this case, will have a clause stating that if you pull out, you are liable for all costs so far encountered or to x amount, this could include your deposit or the full £608+vat, it all depends on the small print sais or not. Your mortgage adviser again, should be able to clear this up for you. They are making money out of this so make them earn it! Typically, a quote of that amount should include the solicitors costs, any referal fee, local authority searches, land registry checks etc, but not include, if applicable in your case, Stamp Duty.

Personally, as no doubt it is worrying and confusing the hell out of you, that a normal purchase or re-mortgage transaction is generally straight forward but will, unless you are used to the process, the words and practices the solicitors use, it will confuse you to no end and make you panic!

Your first stop as you say is speak to your mortgage adviser or go and see them with your forms, clear up the "charges" on the back of the paper work and get them to clarify in plain English the whole process and charges involved. Make them call the solicitors if you dont understand, and please dont fall for their speil, tell them if you are not clear with what they are saying. Make sure you 100% happy with the process and what you are doing.

I am sure you will find the cost quoted is all you will pay and it will be easier than you think. But dont worry at all in feeling the way you do, your in the majority, believe me!

PM me if you need to ask anything. I am off home now, very long day! Well, if you include pub quiz! I hope this is okay, but please, ask if you dont know and dont panic!

 

[Davywalnuts]

PS. The last post I saw was from H71 at 12:33, so I also agree with Bigtwin there!

 

[punkypossum]

The property is freehold - the smallprint advises they charge an extra £230 for leasehold (and all the freehold charges state "will be made" rather than "might"). And for some reason, apparently all the searches will have to be done again although there is an HIP and the property has not been on the market for more than a few months (The HIP appears to be from April). The advisor that set me up with them apparently gets a maximum fee of £135...

And the small print says absolutely nothing re termination of the contract...

However, it does state that all instructions I give to them are binding - even if not in writing. I hope this includes sacking them!

 

[Davywalnuts]

Thanks! Still here at work for some reason!

Some of the work done in HIP's are a waste of time as if it is not acceptable to the lender, as in pretty much all cases, they wont take it, even if it was done yesterday!

If the solicitors quote (£608+vat) to you excludes the basics (land reg and search fees) then they really are taking the piss with you!

So the adviser works for the estate agents who referred you and the solicitors pay them £135? That very generous... but will no doubt be part of your £608 +vat.

 

[punkypossum]

Yup, smallprint states quite clearly that the invoice will include "extra expenses, such as Inland Revenue Stamp Duty, Land Registry Fees, local authority and other search fees or less significant items such as the cost of bank charges. It is not always possible to forsee at the outset all such payments that may arise, but our statement and invoice will show these items separately from any professional fees. We will ask you to provide a payment on account in respect of such payments. The cost of these 3rd party payments will be estimated where they are not immediately quantifiable."

 

[Davywalnuts]

So the £608+ vat is to line their greedy pockets then... Most of those fees arent actually that much, but by the way they are ripping you off on the TT fee for example, and it is a stupid amount they are charging you, I can see they will charge more!

If I was you, and this is personally, I would tell the solicitors first thing this morning to put everything on hold. Source a local conveyancer/solicitor and ask them if you can have a free, no obligation chat where by you can go and review the charges you have been given and what they would charge you in comparission.

Advise your estate agents too what you have done and that you are seeking a second opinon and dont fall for any B.S. they say to you. They only want their £135 from them! You will not be making the process go any slower as I would say right now that very little has been done anyhow! You are still yet to get a full mortgage offer anyhow I would guess and so you wont be causing any actual delay to the process!

 

[Davywalnuts]

PS, Where do you live? Not exactly but which town, as I have quite a few good conveyancers scattered around the country.

 

[punkypossum]

Preston....Some of my friends have been using Turner Pearson and been very happy with them.

So if I ring the solicitors and tell them to put stuff on hold, this will not end up with everything falling through and even more charges? What exactly do I say to them? What if they refuse to do it without charging me the full whack? Do I speak to mortgage man first? He is not always that easy to get hold off either, so it could be lunchtime by the time I get in touch with him...

Sorry for being a pain, but this is really freaking me out!!!

P.S. Which one is the TT fee?

 

[Davywalnuts]

Okay, Preston I can't help you on sorry, but personal reccomendation is something that can be rather good! Local companies will have to build up trust and should work for you better.

Well, you should'nt be liable to anymore charges unless you are already liable! But no, it will not make you fall through, regardless of what the Estate Agent will say. However if you are already liable for the full cost, then it would seem pointless in going to another solicitor! BUT!! I would strongly argue the case with the Estate Agent that you have been mis-sold/mis-lead as they are the ones with a contract with the solicitors if you end up ripped off.

You tell them that you want to put their case with you on hold with immediate effect, your the client! If they want a reason why, lie or tell them the truth, either way, get the time and full name of the person you spoke to noted.

If that is the case with the mortgage bloke, that his hard cheese, he should be more availible. Its not as if you are cancelling the purchase or the mortgage process!

No worries, but I must go home now, still got a 20 min cycle and sitting here in lycra at work with no air-con is well, cooking me out!

"TT", sorry, Telegraphic Transfer fee, sometimes quoted as a CHAPS fee, but basically a same day bank transfer!