Unstructured schedule - improving FTP/endurance?

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
I collected lots of data while cycling this summer, though never really giving it a second look. Looking back at it now I realize that, at least based on HR, I was spending almost 2/3 of any given ride between endurance and sweet spot zones. Which means I was not doing it either hard enough (for sweet spot training) or easy enough (for endurance) - perhaps explaining to a certain degree why I never saw any improvement.

The other possibility (make that 'likelihood') is that you have simply not been riding long enough yet to see any adaptions. I would ignore FTP, effort curves and 20-minute tests for now and just ride your bike for another three months. Sometimes long and steady, sometimes short and hard, but do it often and do it regularly. Training plans are impossible to implement if you don't have a purpose.
 

michaelcycle

Senior Member
Location
London
The other possibility (make that 'likelihood') is that you have simply not been riding long enough yet to see any adaptions. I would ignore FTP, effort curves and 20-minute tests for now and just ride your bike for another three months. Sometimes long and steady, sometimes short and hard, but do it often and do it regularly. Training plans are impossible to implement if you don't have a purpose.

I think this is the way to go for the time being. You just sound like you need to manage your expectations more than anything.

It seems you are basically untrained and haven't given it enough time to see any meaningful change. If your goal is general fitness you don't need to get obsessed with your metrics to this degree. If your goal changes to competing then that may change but really where you are is where most leisure cyclists (including myself) are I believe. You could try cycling to work regularly as an easy means of getting some consistent training if needs be.
 
OP
OP
D

dr-ivan

Regular
Thank you all for the replies.

I can see that my inexperience has caused annoyance to some of you, though I assure you that it was never my intention. Being completely alien to any structured endurance training I thought I would see more results from the cycling I did during the summer. To me, the 3000km effort seemed to be quite a lot. As several of you have already pointed out, it was probably not enough.

Summa summarum, I think I will continue riding on my trainer as much as I can throughout the winter and wait with the power analysis until later.
 

Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
Thank you all for the replies.

I can see that my inexperience has caused annoyance to some of you, though I assure you that it was never my intention. Being completely alien to any structured endurance training I thought I would see more results from the cycling I did during the summer. To me, the 3000km effort seemed to be quite a lot. As several of you have already pointed out, it was probably not enough.

Summa summarum, I think I will continue riding on my trainer as much as I can throughout the winter and wait with the power analysis until later.

It has not caused me any annoyance, I just simply don't know where to start, especially when it will involve debating with people who are giving advice as well as trying to offer assistance. A book would be helpful because it will have a start and an end and there won't be a debate going on about whether the information contained in it is correct somewhere in the middle!
 
Thank you all for the replies.

I can see that my inexperience has caused annoyance to some of you, though I assure you that it was never my intention. Being completely alien to any structured endurance training I thought I would see more results from the cycling I did during the summer. To me, the 3000km effort seemed to be quite a lot. As several of you have already pointed out, it was probably not enough.

Summa summarum, I think I will continue riding on my trainer as much as I can throughout the winter and wait with the power analysis until later.
The most important thing is to stick with it, regardless of the program you choose. If you are less likely to go out in cold or wet weather then the turbo is the way to go for you. You also mentioned that you work irregular shift patterns and cannot commit to the schedule Trainerroad provides. This isn't a problem at all. Just follow the process as best you can with one golden rule - do a lighter session the day after a hard session, this will give your body time to recover and won't allow you to over do it, as you mentioned you may have consecutive days training due to work patterns. So in summary don't do 2 hard sessions back to back to begin with.

As for Trainerroad, well there are a few threads on here about it. One started here which is quite useful. It really was a thread for those who were just starting to use Trainerroad. Should be of help.

Personally i have a structured training schedule which differs vastly throughout the year. So it's difficult to prescribe anything if you don't have any plans or goals as such, but that being said there is a generic approach for overall fitness. Ride as much as you can. There are a few on here that advocate long hours in the saddle but i would suggest, as you are time restricted, you try to up the intensity of your outdoor rides. In other words i'd suggest that 2 hours at 80-90% effort would be more beneficial than a 5 hour ride which you pootle along without purpose. If you have time though you can always add a long ride every few weeks.

You can increase your fitness massively with one hour sessions. The key is intensity. It really is something that could be talked about for hours though and fill a yellow pages with words on the matter so i suggest you follow a basic plan on TR, something like "build" or "base" low volume. This should be around 4 workouts a week but don't worry if some weeks you do less, same applies if you do one more. The idea is just to get through the plan and measure improvement. Test again with the 2 x 8 minute FTP session, once the schedule has ended - usually 8 -12 weeks. After this test start using the 20 minute (60 total) FTP test.

See how you get on in the next 3 or 4 weeks and report back. Most of the people on here are trying to help but they do answer these types of questions often. For that reason sometimes the answers appear quick and blunt but i know it's not intended.

One last thing, as for your apparently low FTP. It's not overly low for someone who has not really trained with intensity. It will grow fast when you realise just how much you can give in these hour sessions. Give it a bit of time and you WILL see results.
 
True - but if you are using HR, then anything above about 85% is unlikely to be sustainable for two hours.
Absolutely. 2 hours on a turbo at 85-90% would destroy a fit man! An outdoor ride though will have many sections, like downhills, where the cyclist will stop pedalling and regain a bit of composure. So i'll rephrase to say "mostly" 80-90% when pedalling". Just equates to longer intervals really.
 
OP
OP
D

dr-ivan

Regular
@Pedrosanchezo: Thank you, I really appreciate that you took the time to write such a detailed reply. It cleared up many of the uncertainties I had in addition to addressing my original question. I will return in some weeks to report back!
 
OP
OP
D

dr-ivan

Regular
Dear all,

I am finally back to report on the progress. Several things have changed. I made myself a present for Christmas - Garmin Vector pedals. After much testing, my FTP was around 200 or 205, instead of the previously stated 180-185. Which is not half-bad (at least better than the paltry results from before). With the new equipment, I embarked on my first training program with TrainerRoad.

I chose the 6-week Sweet Spot Base (1). It was interrupted for 2 weeks, 1 week on vacation and 1 week due to illness. After the completed program, I did one week variety and one week of rest and easy recovery spins.

Previously I had used the 8 minute FTP test, but - following your advice - I went for the full 20 minute test this time. I do not know whether I shouldn't have planned three whole off-days before the testing, but I collapsed at around 13 minutes after targeting around 225-230W. Being rather disappointed, I tried 8-minute test the following day. I improved my FTP with 15W, to 215W with two rather smooth 238W 8-minute intervals.

I am rather happy with the result, so I will go on to Sweet Spot Base (2) spiced up with some longer intervals (f.ex. 2x20m @FTP) until the outside season begins.

Thank you all for helping me a while back!
 
Good effort. Glad things are going to plan!

Stick with the 20minute test though, just drop your target watts by 5-10% in order to finish. Then try and raise power with 2 minutes to go - give it everything. The 8 minute test tends to overestimate actual FTP.
 
Top Bottom