Unstructured schedule - improving FTP/endurance?

[dr-ivan]

Dear all,

I am in the middle of my 20-s, never been too good at endurance sports but have always enjoyed cycling. Recently I decided to try to increase my endurance, and thus bought a trainer for the winter, along with a subscription to TrainerRoad - in hopes of seeing some progress towards the start of the next season. My main problem is that my work schedule is highly erratic (unpredictable mix of 18-hour night shifts, 14-hour day shifts, along with shorter day and evening shifts). I am able to squeeze perhaps 6 hours of training each week, divided into 3, 4 or 5 sessions. Unfortunately, there is no regularity to these sessions. Some weeks I may have three consecutive days for training, during others I can spread my effort somewhat more evenly. Most of the training plans I see online, however, are based around regular workout days interspaced with restitution days. Thus, I am wondering if you have any tips on how to reconcile my working situation with a sensible workout schedule that yields at least somewhat tangible results?

Any advice mostly appreciated!

My humble stats are: FTP 175 (based on my first ever 8-minute test); results from best-effort curve: 5s = 6 W/kg, 5min = 3 W/kg, 1h = 1.7 W/kg

 

[Dusty Bin]

What goals or targets do you have for 2014? A goal of 'increasing your endurace' is a bit vague, tbh

 

[dr-ivan]

Thank you for your reply, Dusty Bin. I live in a mountainous area and would like to focus on climbing. My FTP is embarrassingly low, so I thought that my primary objective towards the beginning of next outdoor season (i.e the coming 4-5 months) would be to increase it beyond 200. I am not quite sure whether this sounds like a reasonable goal or not; as I have already stated - I am more or less a complete newbie.

 

[Dusty Bin]

What I meant was, why are you training? Is it for general fitness, or for some kind of improvement in competition, ie road racing, TTs, etc. If you live in a mountainous area already and you would like to improve your climbing then the answer is pretty straightforward - just get out and ride.

Without knowing more about your riding experience and objectives, it's difficult to be more specific.

 

[dr-ivan]

It is basically for general fitness. What got me thinking about doing some winter trainer riding was the following.

During the summer months I rode around 100 hours and 3000km in total on my road bike. At the time I did not test my endurance using the "proper" 8x2-minute or 20 minute tests. However, I have a particular ascent that I ride on a regular basis - and during the season I could barely see any improvement riding it. Also, logging my workouts using Strava, I usually end up in the middle of the ranking for my age and weight. One would have thought that putting around 5-6 hours riding a week might improve my performance, but it has not, at least not to any noticeable degree. This is why thought that somewhat more targeted / structured training might perhaps bring better results.

I have never participated in any event (although I would very much like to some time in the future).
Also: I have a chronic injury in both knees which does not impact day-to-day riding or activity but prevents neuromuscular workouts and sudden bursts of power output.

 

[montage]

I'd suggest you have a bank of workouts that take approximately 1hour - for example 20 mins x 20, 60 min SST, 5mins X 5 ... there are loads out there to choose from. Doing 3 1 hour sessions a week sounds doable to you - don't worry about the order and don't worry about working out on consecutive days. Any other rides you can do, do them, but to be time efficient you need to go hard on hard days and easy on easy days. You can get very fit on 6 hours a week.
I would google sweet spot training, it can bring you on very quickly.

Having said that, living in a mountainous area, just get out and hit the climbs

 

[Rob3rt]

Your FTP is so low it suggests you probably are not all that fit unless you weigh as much as the dust in my pocket. You should focus on just riding and doing sub-threshold efforts, IMO.

 

[VamP]

Unless the OP has done his sums wrong, I work out his weight at 103 kg. 175 is an unusually low FTP for that mass, so I would suggest just riding more as you are basically completely untrained. Losing weight would be very beneficial, particularly for hill work.

 

[dr-ivan]

@montage: Thank you for your suggestions! Is there any proportion of hard days and easy days I should target? (f.ex. 2 hard days + 1 easy day a week?) Also, I can see that many training programs use a base + build structure. Should I try to follow it?

@Rob3rt: That is exactly the problem - "just riding" is what I have been doing for 100 hours and 3000 km during this summer, including mountain climbs. However, as I stated earlier, I was unable to detect any significant improvements. So, I must be doing something really wrong, which is also why I am trying to try structuring my training efforts better during the winter in hopes of improving the gains.

@VamP: My current weight is 79kg. The FTP is based on my first (and still only) 8x2 minute test, whereas the W/kg values are based on best-efforts curve of my first 5 sessions with TrainerRoad.

 

[BSRU]

More hours needed, I am just a commuter with some leisure rides at weekends and managed to ride over 18 hours a week in the summer months.
Didn't make me fast just improved my general fitness and well being.

 

[jdtate101]

I agree, you need more hours. Doing intervals "can" help increase your FTP (if you're doing the right training) however it's not going to help with endurance. To increase endurance only doing the hours will help, as nothing replicates doing a 6hr ride indoors. You say you've done 100hrs and 3000km, TBH that is not a lot of mileage, as an example this yr alone I will top out at close to 13000km, and there are guys on here who do even more. If you want to be able to ride long, then there is no substitute for doing the road work, no shortcuts.
BTW for a "correct" FTP test you need to be doing at least a 20min block at max effort, 8mins is just not long enough to put you under the hammer to see how you deal with getting close to VO2 MAX.

http://paulrinkenberg.hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Find-Your-Functional-Threshold

I would suggest you look to build a good base fitness over winter (google cycling base fitness training), then once the weather improves get out on the road as much as possible. For example when I was training for this yrs Marmotte, I was doing a 100mile ride every weekend, sometime 150miles, and doing 200+ per week regularly.

Also don't fall into the mistake of doing something everyday, rest days and recovery rides are equally important, as is eating right and staying hydrated.

 

[Rob3rt]

 

[VamP]

@montage: Thank you for your suggestions! Is there any proportion of hard days and easy days I should target? (f.ex. 2 hard days + 1 easy day a week?) Also, I can see that many training programs use a base + build structure. Should I try to follow it?

@Rob3rt: That is exactly the problem - "just riding" is what I have been doing for 100 hours and 3000 km during this summer, including mountain climbs. However, as I stated earlier, I was unable to detect any significant improvements. So, I must be doing something really wrong, which is also why I am trying to try structuring my training efforts better during the winter in hopes of improving the gains.

@VamP: My current weight is 79kg. The FTP is based on my first (and still only) 8x2 minute test, whereas the W/kg values are based on best-efforts curve of my first 5 sessions with TrainerRoad.

I think you're confusing yourself with all the numbers, hence the wildly diverse power numbers you listed in your OP. I wouldn't go for intervals or Trainer Road at all in your case until you have got a decent foundation (say 5000 miles) and a better understanding of what you are measuring and it's limitations.

 

[dr-ivan]

@BSRU / @jdtate101: Thank you for the pointers, I will try to be patient with mileage.

I collected lots of data while cycling this summer, though never really giving it a second look. Looking back at it now I realize that, at least based on HR, I was spending almost 2/3 of any given ride between endurance and sweet spot zones. Which means I was not doing it either hard enough (for sweet spot training) or easy enough (for endurance) - perhaps explaining to a certain degree why I never saw any improvement.

@VamP: I appreciate your advice, you might be entirely right about my confusing myself. FTP-number supplied is calculated from the 8x2 test, and is only an approximation - in the same way as the 20-minute test is. Best-efforts curve is derived from my 5 riding sessions with a power meter. The 1-hour number simply depicts my best average power output during any one hour of those sessions. Neither of the sessions were an all-out 1-hour TT-effort (=FTP), thus the significant discrepancy.

 

[Rob3rt]

Buy a book (Training and Racing with a Power Meter by Hunter Allen and Andy Coggan, if you insist on using pseudo power training) & on that bomb shell I am declaring myself out.