smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
Is that the city of Bergen in the country of Norway? </sherwen>
UCI Road World Championships Bergen 2017 **No Spoilers Now**
- Thread starter brommers
- Start date
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Is that the city of Bergen in the country of Norway? </sherwen>
gavroche
Getting old but not past it
- Location
- North Wales
Not at all, just reminding him that cycling has been around for a long time with many great champions.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
gavroche
Getting old but not past it
- Location
- North Wales
OP
OP
brommers
Years beyond my wisdom
- Location
- Clacton-on-Sea
Elite women’s individual time trial start order
Start time/name/nationality. Times given are local time.
15:35:00 STEPHENS Lauren USA
15:36:30 VAN DER BREGGEN Anna NED
15:38:00 GEREFIEL Selam Amha ETH
15:39:30 FASOI Varvara GRE
15:41:00 GAFINOVITZ Rotem ISR
15:42:30 YANG Qianyu HKG
15:44:00 JOVAISYTE Justina LTU
15:45:30 MATHIESEN Pernille DEN
15:47:00 FORCHINI Ramona SUI
15:48:30 THORSEN Thea NOR
15:50:00 LABOUS Juliette FRA
15:51:30 BARKER Elinor GBR
15:53:00 KAJIHARA Yumi JPN
15:54:30 MORZENTI Lisa ITA
15:56:00 SAARELAINEN Sari FIN
15:57:30 WORRACK Trixi GER
15:59:00 WILES Tayler USA
16:00:30 TCYMBALIUK Ksenia RUS
16:02:00 CHRISTOFOROU Antri CYP
16:03:30 GEBRU Eyeru Tesfoam ETH
16:05:00 TSAVARI Eleni Michalista GRE
16:06:30 LEE Jer Ling Serene SIN
16:08:00 BURNS Eileen IRL
16:09:30 SHAPIRA Omer ISR
16:11:00 HALBWACHS Aurelie MRI
16:12:30 VILLALON SANCHEZ Aranza Valentina CHI
16:14:00 SANTOYO PEREZ Brenda MEX
16:15:30 RITTER Martina AUT
16:17:00 SANABRIA SANCHEZ Ana Cristina COL
16:18:30 PANG Yao HKG
16:20:00 SHEKEL Olga UKR
16:21:30 OYARBIDE JIMENEZ Lourdes ESP
16:23:00 NERLO Aurela POL
16:24:30 TUSLAITE Daiva LTU
16:26:00 DYGERT Chloe USA
16:27:30 VAN VLEUTEN Annemiek NED
16:29:00 PAVLUKHINA Olena AZE
16:30:30 LUDWIG Cecilie Uttrup DEN
16:32:00 REUSSER Marlen SUI
16:33:30 HEINE Vita NOR
16:35:00 CORDON RAGOT Audrey FRA
16:36:30 CANUEL Karol-Ann CAN
16:38:00 BARNES Hannah GBR
16:39:30 DUYCK Ann-Sophie BEL
16:41:00 YONAMINE Eri JPN
16:42:30 MOOLMAN-PASIO Ashleigh RSA
16:44:00 VILLUMSEN Linda NZL
16:45:30 LONGO BORGHINI Elisa ITA
16:47:00 LEPISTO Lotta Pauliina FIN
16:48:30 BRENNAUER Lisa GER
16:50:00 ZABELINSKAYA Olga RUS
16:51:30 GARFOOT Katrin AUS
16:53:00 VAN DIJK Ellen NED
16:54:30 NEBEN Amber Leone USA
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...e-trial-start-list-192429#XHx7z1cQbjXM1MRE.99
Start time/name/nationality. Times given are local time.
15:35:00 STEPHENS Lauren USA
15:36:30 VAN DER BREGGEN Anna NED
15:38:00 GEREFIEL Selam Amha ETH
15:39:30 FASOI Varvara GRE
15:41:00 GAFINOVITZ Rotem ISR
15:42:30 YANG Qianyu HKG
15:44:00 JOVAISYTE Justina LTU
15:45:30 MATHIESEN Pernille DEN
15:47:00 FORCHINI Ramona SUI
15:48:30 THORSEN Thea NOR
15:50:00 LABOUS Juliette FRA
15:51:30 BARKER Elinor GBR
15:53:00 KAJIHARA Yumi JPN
15:54:30 MORZENTI Lisa ITA
15:56:00 SAARELAINEN Sari FIN
15:57:30 WORRACK Trixi GER
15:59:00 WILES Tayler USA
16:00:30 TCYMBALIUK Ksenia RUS
16:02:00 CHRISTOFOROU Antri CYP
16:03:30 GEBRU Eyeru Tesfoam ETH
16:05:00 TSAVARI Eleni Michalista GRE
16:06:30 LEE Jer Ling Serene SIN
16:08:00 BURNS Eileen IRL
16:09:30 SHAPIRA Omer ISR
16:11:00 HALBWACHS Aurelie MRI
16:12:30 VILLALON SANCHEZ Aranza Valentina CHI
16:14:00 SANTOYO PEREZ Brenda MEX
16:15:30 RITTER Martina AUT
16:17:00 SANABRIA SANCHEZ Ana Cristina COL
16:18:30 PANG Yao HKG
16:20:00 SHEKEL Olga UKR
16:21:30 OYARBIDE JIMENEZ Lourdes ESP
16:23:00 NERLO Aurela POL
16:24:30 TUSLAITE Daiva LTU
16:26:00 DYGERT Chloe USA
16:27:30 VAN VLEUTEN Annemiek NED
16:29:00 PAVLUKHINA Olena AZE
16:30:30 LUDWIG Cecilie Uttrup DEN
16:32:00 REUSSER Marlen SUI
16:33:30 HEINE Vita NOR
16:35:00 CORDON RAGOT Audrey FRA
16:36:30 CANUEL Karol-Ann CAN
16:38:00 BARNES Hannah GBR
16:39:30 DUYCK Ann-Sophie BEL
16:41:00 YONAMINE Eri JPN
16:42:30 MOOLMAN-PASIO Ashleigh RSA
16:44:00 VILLUMSEN Linda NZL
16:45:30 LONGO BORGHINI Elisa ITA
16:47:00 LEPISTO Lotta Pauliina FIN
16:48:30 BRENNAUER Lisa GER
16:50:00 ZABELINSKAYA Olga RUS
16:51:30 GARFOOT Katrin AUS
16:53:00 VAN DIJK Ellen NED
16:54:30 NEBEN Amber Leone USA
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...e-trial-start-list-192429#XHx7z1cQbjXM1MRE.99
speakingtoghosts
Member
Fair enough.. I'll never to link to anything I've done again. I should stress, I only do it for my personal enjoyment and was just keen to get some responses from people who are heavily into the sport. I've nothing else to gain from advertising it. On reflection, I do see that it could be irritating. That said, I think the tone of some of the comments above is unnecessarily harsh. I'm new here and not familiar with the culture of the forum.
On the issue of '"Rarely in the history of the sport have we seen a rider with such pure talent...'
I appreciate that there have been others with comparable, if not better, combined tt and climbing skills. I have heard of Ancquetil in fact(!), and, for what it's worth, I have been following the sport all my life. I don't want to get into semantics or appear oppositional, but, seeing as someone did ask me to define it, 'rarely' does not mean 'never before' - it means 'not often', 'few times'... Not many riders in the history of the sport have had the kind of all-round ability in grand tours Froome has. That was never supposed to be a daring assertion; it seems pretty obvious from the statistics. Well, I don't doubt there's room to disagree with what I said. I'm not unduly proud of what I write, and I certainly don't consider myself an expert.
Thanks for your responses
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Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
speakingtoghosts
Member
not quick enough.. better late than never
speakingtoghosts
Member
The atmosphere here is not all that friendly, guys, even if I did commit an accidental faux pas.
It's worth remembering that behind the screens there are just normal people with feelings. Anyways, sorry to have been a pain.. I'm going to roll up my ignorance and trudge off in search of friendlier territory (:
It's worth remembering that behind the screens there are just normal people with feelings. Anyways, sorry to have been a pain.. I'm going to roll up my ignorance and trudge off in search of friendlier territory (:
S-Express
Guest
This bit ^^ ........
.......doesn't fit in with this bit ^^
Previous TdF winners from the mid.late 80s on, like Fignon, Lemond, Riis (yes, I know), Ulrich (yes, I know), Armstrong (yes, I know), Contador, Evans, Wiggins, Nibali - all climb well and TT well. In fact, it's difficult to win a grand tour without having a talent for both, for obvious reasons. Froome is the current man in form in GT/GC terms, but he is no different to any previous winners, in that respect.
speakingtoghosts
Member
aaagghhhhh.. I thought I'd bowed out, but I'm tearing my hair out. I've just got to wade back in.
Let's just go back to the statement that drew disagreement/criticism - that's what I'm referring back to when I say 'kind of all-round ability':
Rarely in the history of the sport have we seen a rider with such pure talent in both the fundamental disciplines of grand tour riding
--'both the fundamental disciplines of grand tour riding' - yes, these are the key skills; yes, the great grand tour riders have almost all combined them pretty damn well. It's very obvious that being an all-rounder is key to winning grand tours! And that fact is implicit in what I said..
--'such pure talent' - not even 'pure'.. 'such pure'. All the guys listed above and many more besides have had talent in both disciplines.. many have had pure talent..
You could name Porte and Dumoulin too..
I'm talking about fine, fine degrees of a given quality. And what I'm saying is that, from the moment of his emergence in 2011, Froome has shown an extra special ability to function at the same time as both as a true grimpeur and rouleur. On his day, he has been able to compete with and overcome specialists in both disciplines.
That kind of talent is quite clearly not unprecedented or unequalled, and I never suggested it was. However, to throw Froome in with guys like Wiggins, Evans, Ulrich etc. is hard to justify. They were wonderful GT riders, but Froome is a level above in that discipline. Evans was a diesel who limited his losses as best he could in the hills and finally got a chance to win a (deserved) TdF after years of honest toil. Wiggins bent over backwards to lose enough weight and get himself up the climbs fast enough to live with the specialists. But Wiggins wasn't a true climber.. he didn't have a turn of speed to do damage on a climb. Froome nursed him up the climbs in 2012.
Froome won the yellow and the polkadot in the same edition (2015).. he once destroyed Quintana up Ventoux... and he's a double olympic bronze medallist in the ITT.
(I know it sounds like I'm loving on him, but he is, by his record (which, as yet, stands intact), indisputably one of the greatest ever.)
At the end of the day, these riders are separated by tiny margins.. they are/were all phenomenal all-rounders. But several of those you name have won half or less the TdFs Froome has accumulated and, viewed objectively, occupy a different tier of GT history.
For the time being, I stand by what I said.. in terms of combining such pure talent as a climber and a tester, Froome is a rare phenomenon. Being rare probably helps you to become the fifth most successful rider in TdF history and do a double no-one in the modern era has achieved.. that's quite rare itself!
I might very well be wrong. What's bothering me is that, as things stand, people have been busy pouring scorn on things/ideas I never actually said!!
Let's just go back to the statement that drew disagreement/criticism - that's what I'm referring back to when I say 'kind of all-round ability':
Rarely in the history of the sport have we seen a rider with such pure talent in both the fundamental disciplines of grand tour riding
--'both the fundamental disciplines of grand tour riding' - yes, these are the key skills; yes, the great grand tour riders have almost all combined them pretty damn well. It's very obvious that being an all-rounder is key to winning grand tours! And that fact is implicit in what I said..
--'such pure talent' - not even 'pure'.. 'such pure'. All the guys listed above and many more besides have had talent in both disciplines.. many have had pure talent..
You could name Porte and Dumoulin too..
I'm talking about fine, fine degrees of a given quality. And what I'm saying is that, from the moment of his emergence in 2011, Froome has shown an extra special ability to function at the same time as both as a true grimpeur and rouleur. On his day, he has been able to compete with and overcome specialists in both disciplines.
That kind of talent is quite clearly not unprecedented or unequalled, and I never suggested it was. However, to throw Froome in with guys like Wiggins, Evans, Ulrich etc. is hard to justify. They were wonderful GT riders, but Froome is a level above in that discipline. Evans was a diesel who limited his losses as best he could in the hills and finally got a chance to win a (deserved) TdF after years of honest toil. Wiggins bent over backwards to lose enough weight and get himself up the climbs fast enough to live with the specialists. But Wiggins wasn't a true climber.. he didn't have a turn of speed to do damage on a climb. Froome nursed him up the climbs in 2012.
Froome won the yellow and the polkadot in the same edition (2015).. he once destroyed Quintana up Ventoux... and he's a double olympic bronze medallist in the ITT.
(I know it sounds like I'm loving on him, but he is, by his record (which, as yet, stands intact), indisputably one of the greatest ever.)
At the end of the day, these riders are separated by tiny margins.. they are/were all phenomenal all-rounders. But several of those you name have won half or less the TdFs Froome has accumulated and, viewed objectively, occupy a different tier of GT history.
For the time being, I stand by what I said.. in terms of combining such pure talent as a climber and a tester, Froome is a rare phenomenon. Being rare probably helps you to become the fifth most successful rider in TdF history and do a double no-one in the modern era has achieved.. that's quite rare itself!
I might very well be wrong. What's bothering me is that, as things stand, people have been busy pouring scorn on things/ideas I never actually said!!
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OP
OP
brommers
Years beyond my wisdom
- Location
- Clacton-on-Sea
**POLITE REMINDER**
This thread is about Bergen 2017
This thread is about Bergen 2017
Get over yourself and post your thoughts on the appropriate threads and you'll be more than welcome here.
Keep them a bit pithier too as our attention span is short
speakingtoghosts
Member
Yeah..fair enough.. I can see why you'd say that.
The old members launched into this topic on this thread. I was responding (long-windedly).
Perhaps move the whole thing could be lifted to a separate thread just in case anyone does want to add to it.
Back to Bergen.. I need some peaceful fjords in my life (:
The old members launched into this topic on this thread. I was responding (long-windedly).
Perhaps move the whole thing could be lifted to a separate thread just in case anyone does want to add to it.
Back to Bergen.. I need some peaceful fjords in my life (:
OP
OP
brommers
Years beyond my wisdom
- Location
- Clacton-on-Sea
Elite men’s individual time trial start order
Start time/name/nationality. Times given are local time.
13:05:00 LUTSENKO Alexey (KAZ)
13:06:30 SUTTERLIN Jasha (GER)
13:08:00 WAIS Ahmad Badreddin (SYR)
13:09:30 KHAN Awais (PAK)
13:11:00 TAN Gabriel (SIN)
13:12:30 ZHUPA Eugert (ALB)
13:14:00 BRITTON Robert (CAN)
13:15:30 ZOIDL Riccardo (AUT)
13:17:00 HANSEN Lasse Norman (DEN)
13:18:30 RYBARUK Kostyantyn (UKR)
13:20:00 DE PLUS Laurens (BEL)
13:50:00 VANGSTAD Andreas (NOR)
13:51:30 COSTA Rui (POR)
13:53:00 HOLLENSTEIN Reto (SUI)
13:54:30 ROSSKOPF Joseph (USA)
13:56:00 EVTUSHENKO Alexander (RUS)
13:57:30 TACIAK Mateusz (POL)
13:59:00 TRATNIK Jan (SLO)
14:00:30 IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Gorka (ESP)
14:02:00 GEOGHEGAN HART Tao (GBR)
14:03:30 BIZHIGITOV Zhandos (KAZ)
14:05:00 ARNDT Nikias (GER)
14:35:00 JASER Nazir (SYR)
14:36:30 MUHAMMAD Arsalan Anjum (PAK)
14:38:00 TEOH Yi Peng (SIN)
14:39:30 BURROWES Jermaine (GUY)
14:41:00 MARTINS SANDOVAL Uri (MEX)
14:42:30 HALILAJ Redi (ALB)
14:44:00 CHEUNG King Lok (HKG)
14:45:30 ASADOV Elchin (AZE)
14:47:00 NDAYISENGA Valens (RWA)
14:48:30 LAMPAERT Yves (BEL)
14:50:00 KONOVALOVAS Ignatas (LTU)
15:20:00 TVETCOV Serghei (ROU)
15:21:30 SEPULVEDA Eduardo (ARG)
15:23:00 TESHOME Meron (ERI)
15:24:30 BOND Hamish (NZL)
15:26:00 HOULE Hugo (CAN)
15:27:30 SMIT Willem Jakobus (RSA)
15:29:00 POSTLBERGER Lukas (AUT)
15:30:30 MADSEN Martin Toft (DEN)
15:32:00 GRIVKO Andrey (UKR)
15:33:30 KELDERMAN Wilco (NED)
15:35:00 PANTANO GOMEZ Jarlinson (COL)
16:05:00 ROCHE Nicolas(IRL)
16:06:30 GRUZDEV Dmitriy (KAZ)
16:08:00 BARTA Jan (CZE)
16:09:30 HAGEN Edvald Boasson (NOR)
16:11:00 CAMPENAERTS Victor (BEL)
16:12:30 OLIVEIRA Nelson (POR)
16:14:00 GOUGEARD Alexis (FRA)
16:15:30 MOSCON Gianni (ITA)
16:17:00 LUDVIGSSON Tobias (SWE)
16:18:30 KUNG Stefan (SUI)
16:20:00 KIRYIENKA Vasil (BLR)
16:50:00 VAN GARDEREN Tejay (USA)
16:51:30 ZAKARIN Ilnur (RUS)
16:53:00 JUNGELS Bob (LUX)
16:54:30 BODNAR Maciej (POL)
16:56:00 ROGLIC Primoz (SLO)
16:57:30 DENNIS Rohan (AUS)
16:59:00 CASTROVIEJO Jonathan (ESP)
17:00:30 FROOME Chris (GBR)
17:02:00 DUMOULIN Tom (NED)
17:03:30 MARTIN Tony (GER)
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...trial-start-list-2-289300#oAvFDr8jDtkC9Sxo.99
Start time/name/nationality. Times given are local time.
13:05:00 LUTSENKO Alexey (KAZ)
13:06:30 SUTTERLIN Jasha (GER)
13:08:00 WAIS Ahmad Badreddin (SYR)
13:09:30 KHAN Awais (PAK)
13:11:00 TAN Gabriel (SIN)
13:12:30 ZHUPA Eugert (ALB)
13:14:00 BRITTON Robert (CAN)
13:15:30 ZOIDL Riccardo (AUT)
13:17:00 HANSEN Lasse Norman (DEN)
13:18:30 RYBARUK Kostyantyn (UKR)
13:20:00 DE PLUS Laurens (BEL)
13:50:00 VANGSTAD Andreas (NOR)
13:51:30 COSTA Rui (POR)
13:53:00 HOLLENSTEIN Reto (SUI)
13:54:30 ROSSKOPF Joseph (USA)
13:56:00 EVTUSHENKO Alexander (RUS)
13:57:30 TACIAK Mateusz (POL)
13:59:00 TRATNIK Jan (SLO)
14:00:30 IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Gorka (ESP)
14:02:00 GEOGHEGAN HART Tao (GBR)
14:03:30 BIZHIGITOV Zhandos (KAZ)
14:05:00 ARNDT Nikias (GER)
14:35:00 JASER Nazir (SYR)
14:36:30 MUHAMMAD Arsalan Anjum (PAK)
14:38:00 TEOH Yi Peng (SIN)
14:39:30 BURROWES Jermaine (GUY)
14:41:00 MARTINS SANDOVAL Uri (MEX)
14:42:30 HALILAJ Redi (ALB)
14:44:00 CHEUNG King Lok (HKG)
14:45:30 ASADOV Elchin (AZE)
14:47:00 NDAYISENGA Valens (RWA)
14:48:30 LAMPAERT Yves (BEL)
14:50:00 KONOVALOVAS Ignatas (LTU)
15:20:00 TVETCOV Serghei (ROU)
15:21:30 SEPULVEDA Eduardo (ARG)
15:23:00 TESHOME Meron (ERI)
15:24:30 BOND Hamish (NZL)
15:26:00 HOULE Hugo (CAN)
15:27:30 SMIT Willem Jakobus (RSA)
15:29:00 POSTLBERGER Lukas (AUT)
15:30:30 MADSEN Martin Toft (DEN)
15:32:00 GRIVKO Andrey (UKR)
15:33:30 KELDERMAN Wilco (NED)
15:35:00 PANTANO GOMEZ Jarlinson (COL)
16:05:00 ROCHE Nicolas(IRL)
16:06:30 GRUZDEV Dmitriy (KAZ)
16:08:00 BARTA Jan (CZE)
16:09:30 HAGEN Edvald Boasson (NOR)
16:11:00 CAMPENAERTS Victor (BEL)
16:12:30 OLIVEIRA Nelson (POR)
16:14:00 GOUGEARD Alexis (FRA)
16:15:30 MOSCON Gianni (ITA)
16:17:00 LUDVIGSSON Tobias (SWE)
16:18:30 KUNG Stefan (SUI)
16:20:00 KIRYIENKA Vasil (BLR)
16:50:00 VAN GARDEREN Tejay (USA)
16:51:30 ZAKARIN Ilnur (RUS)
16:53:00 JUNGELS Bob (LUX)
16:54:30 BODNAR Maciej (POL)
16:56:00 ROGLIC Primoz (SLO)
16:57:30 DENNIS Rohan (AUS)
16:59:00 CASTROVIEJO Jonathan (ESP)
17:00:30 FROOME Chris (GBR)
17:02:00 DUMOULIN Tom (NED)
17:03:30 MARTIN Tony (GER)
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...trial-start-list-2-289300#oAvFDr8jDtkC9Sxo.99
