Tyres - Facing

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Jim77

New Member
I have just had some new tyres fitted and have just noticed that the rear one is one is on the wrong way around (facing backwards). To change this I would obviously need to take the whole tyre off and turn it around. Is it worth the hassle? Will it make any difference?

Cheers.
Jim
 

RedBike

New Member
Location
Beside the road
Depends on the tyres.

Some tyres are suppost to be face different ways depending on if they're used as a front or a rear.
 

alecstilleyedye

nothing in moderation
Moderator
depends. on a road bike you don't need any tread, even in the wet (the thin tyre acts in the same way as the grooves on a car tyre and displaces water accordingly). on a mountain bike, some tyres are wheel specific (different tread patterns). i once made the mistake of swapping the tyres over and having a big crash. i won't be doing that again :smile:
 
User3143 said:
on a rear tyre it is important to have the tyre facing the right way as the rear wheel gears drive to the bike. That is why tyre manufactures put the rotation of the tyre on the sidewall. Don't matter what type of bike it is.
On a road tyre it makes zero difference. The tread pattern is just a pretty little design to reassure people who think that because it matters on a car it must do on a bike.

It doesn't.
 

Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Him Jim. Take a look on the side walls of he tyres. You should see directional arrows. Some tyres are designed to run in only one direction where as others run one way or the other depending on whether they are front or rear. My Schwalbe Land Cruisers are an example of the later.

Jim77 said:
I have just had some new tyres fitted and have just noticed that the rear one is one is on the wrong way around (facing backwards). To change this I would obviously need to take the whole tyre off and turn it around. Is it worth the hassle? Will it make any difference?

Cheers.
Jim
 

Maz

Guru
Depends on the tyres and bike, I suppose.
My 23mm tyres are arrow-labelled but it doesn't make one iota of difference to the ride/grip.
 
User3143 said:
No way, go through a big enough puddle at speed and it is almost certain that you will aquaplane. I should know I've done it.

I thought a bicycle needed to be travelling at about 100mph or something like to get an aquaplaning effect...
I must have misread it somewhere or the other - my tyres are only skinny anyway, with a fat top bit!:rofl:
 

ASC1951

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
User3143 said:
Don't quote me and then not answer my question, and come up with an answer that is wrong.
OK, if you absolutely insist.

Your original reply said that it does matter which way round the tyre is, irrespective of the type of bike - and cheadle hulme pointed out that you were right about an MTB but wrong for a road bike.

You then quibbled that you hadn't specifically mentioned a road bike. True, but you had said that it applied to all bikes i.e. by implication including road bikes.

Now you claim that you can aquaplane on your road bike. You can't, for the reason Aperitif points out.

There are many subjects where I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe this is one where you don't. :rolleyes:
 

HF2300

Insanity Prawn Boy
Jim77 said:
I have just had some new tyres fitted and have just noticed that the rear one is one is on the wrong way around (facing backwards).

Jim, do you mean rotation arrows the wrong way or tread pattern the opposite way?
 
User3143 said:
Going 30mph down a hill through a masive puddle at the bottom, cause it had been raining all day and I aquaplaned (i.e the front wheel felt really light). Why do you think vehicles have to have a minimum depth of tread on them, ffs I wish people would apply a bit of common sense and read my previous post:rolleyes:

I agree with this part of your post User3143. Hope you do to... :eek:
 

Tim Bennet.

Entirely Average Member
Location
S of Kendal
Aquaplaning is a distinct phenomena and shouldn't be confused with "the front wheel felt really light". Such is aquaplaning's impact on the safety of road vehicles and aircraft in particular that is has been well studied and the physics involved clearly understood. The loading, tyre contact area and water entrapment properties of a road bike tyre is such that aquaplaning only becomes an issue at speeds around 180mph. (kph?)

Wet grip in general on a bike is also completely unaffected by tread pattern as the water displacement characteristics are completely different between a bike and a car. Wet grip on hard surfaces (ie one where a rubber nobble is unable to make an impression) is entirely based on the softness (grippiness) of the rubber compound. Having any tread pattern what so ever only reduces the rubber in contact with the road and hence reduces their grip.

Big heavy tyres on big heavy rims do however have an increased gyroscopic stability and therefore feel more 'planted' on the road giving an increased level of rider confidence, which may be entirely misplaced.

If people would only apply a bit of common sense they would see that feed back through the handlebars should not be confused with engineering science, as our brains are well able to misinterpretate those sensations. Next people will be arguing that Reynolds 853 steel is stiffer than other steels because you can feel it when you ride along.
 

Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Hydroplaning (tires)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Hydroplaning or aquaplaning by a road vehicle occurs when a layer of water builds between the rubber tires of the vehicle and the road surface, leading to the loss of traction and thus preventing the vehicle from responding to control inputs such as steering, braking or accelerating. It becomes, in effect, an unpowered and unsteered sled.
Hydroplaning also affects aircraft tires in contact with a wet runway and rollercoasters on a wet track.
==Causes==lauren rules Every vehicle function that changes direction or speed, from turning, to accelerating, to braking, places an increased load on the tires. Control of this load relies on the friction between the tire contact points and the road surface. More friction makes for a greater resistance to slipping; if water comes between the tires and the road, friction may be reduced to the extent that the driver may lose control.
300px-Hydroplaning.jpg
A diagram of a hydroplaning tire.


The tread, grooves, or sipes of a rubber tire are designed to remove water from beneath the tire, providing high friction with the road surface even in wet conditions. Hydroplaning occurs when a tire encounters more water than it can dissipate. Water pressure in front of the wheel forces a wedge of water under the leading edge of the tire, causing it to lift from the road. The tire then skates on a sheet of water with little, if any, direct road contact, resulting in loss of control.
If multiple tires hydroplane, the vehicle may lose directional control and slide until it either collides with an obstacle, or slows enough that one or more tires contact the road again and friction is regained.
The likelihood of hydroplaning increases with the speed of the vehicle and the depth of the water. Tread wear and underinflation also increase the risk for hydroplaning, as do wider tires. Narrower tires are less vulnerable to hydroplaning because the vehicle weight is distributed over a smaller rubber contact patch, resulting in a greater ability for the tires to press water to the sides, allowing tire contact with pavement.
The practice of plus sizing by replacing a vehicle's original equipment wheel size with a larger diameter wheel and replacing the tire with a lower-aspect-ratio tire of the same diameter affects, some of the performance characteristics of vehicles, as well as increases the risk of hydroplaning with the wider tires.[1]
Bicycles, motorcycles, and similar vehicles with a round-shaped surface toward the pavement are far less likely to hydroplane in normal road use. The contact area with the road is a canoe-shaped patch that effectively squeezes water out of the way. However, because road friction is reduced in wet conditions, the lateral force that the tires can accommodate before sliding is greatly diminished. While a slide in a four-wheeled vehicle is correctable with practice, the same slide on a motorcycle will generally cause the rider to fall, with severe consequences. Thus, despite the relative lack of hydroplaning danger, motorcycle riders must be even more cautious because overall traction is reduced by wet roadways.
See also traction for effects similar to hydroplaning.

In motor vehicles


Response

What the driver experiences when a vehicle hydroplanes depends on which wheels have lost traction and the direction of travel.
If the vehicle is traveling straight, it may begin to feel slightly loose. If there was a high level of road feel in normal conditions, it may suddenly diminish. Small correctional control inputs will be ignored by the vehicle.
If the drive wheels hydroplane, there may be a sudden audible rise in engine RPM and indicated speed as they begin to spin. In a broad highway turn, if the front wheels lose traction, the car will suddenly begin to drift towards the outside of the bend. If the rear wheels lose traction, the back of the car will begin to slew out sideways into a skid. If all four wheels hydroplane at once, the car will slide in a straight line, again towards the outside of the bend if in a turn. When any or all of the wheels regain traction, there may be a sudden jerk in whatever direction that wheel is pointed.

Recovery

To recover while traveling in a straight line, the driver should not turn the steering wheel of the car or apply the brakes. Either action could put the car into a skid from which recovery would be difficult or impossible. Instead, with no change in steering input, the driver should gently ease pressure off the accelerator. Control should then return. If braking is unavoidable, the driver should lightly pump the brakes until hydroplaning has stopped.
If the rear wheels hydroplane and cause oversteer, the driver should steer in the direction of the skid until the rear tires gain traction, and then rapidly steer in the other direction to straighten the car.


Types


Dynamic

Dynamic hydroplaning is a relatively high-speed phenomenon that occurs when there is a film of water on the runway that is at least one-tenth inch deep. As the speed of the aircraft and the depth of the water increase, the water layer builds up an increasing resistance to displacement, resulting in the formation of a wedge of water beneath the tire. At some speed, termed the hydroplaning speed (VP), the upward force generated by water pressure equals the weight of the aircraft and the tire is lifted off the runway surface. In this condition, the tires no longer contribute to directional control, and braking action is nil. Dynamic hydroplaning is related to tire inflation pressure. Data obtained during hydroplaning tests have shown the minimum dynamic hydroplaning speed (VP)of a tire to be 8.6 times the square root of the tire pressure in pounds per square inch (PSI). For an aircraft with a main tire pressure of 24 PSI, the calculated hydroplaning speed would be approximately 42 knots. It is important to note that the calculated speed referred to above is for the start of dynamic hydroplaning. Once hydroplaning has started, it may persist to a significantly slower speed depending on the type being experienced.

Reverted rubber

Reverted rubber (steam) hydroplaning occurs during heavy braking that results in a prolonged locked-wheel skid. Only a thin film of water on the runway is required to facilitate this type of hydroplaning. The tire skidding generates enough heat to cause the rubber in contact with the runway to revert to its original uncured state. The reverted rubber acts as a seal between the tire and the runway, and delays water exit from the tire footprint area. The water heats and is converted to steam which supports the tire off the runway.
Reverted rubber hydroplaning frequently follows an encounter with dynamic hydroplaning, during which time the pilot may have the brakes locked in an attempt to slow the aircraft. Eventually the aircraft slows enough to where the tires make contact with the runway surface and the aircraft begins to skid. The remedy for this type of hydroplane is for the pilot to release the brakes and allow the wheels to spin up and apply moderate braking. Reverted rubber hydroplaning is insidious in that the pilot may not know when it begins, and it can persist to very slow groundspeeds (20 knots or less).

Viscous

Viscous hydroplaning is due to the viscous properties of water. A thin film of fluid no more than one thousandth of an inch in depth is all that is needed. The tire cannot penetrate the fluid and the tire rolls on top of the film. This can occur at a much lower speed than dynamic hydroplane, but requires a smooth or smooth acting surface such as asphalt or a touchdown area coated with the accumulated rubber of past landings. Such a surface can have the same friction coefficient as wet ice.
When confronted with the possibility of hydroplaning, it is best to land on a grooved runway (if available). Touchdown speed should be as slow as possible consistent with safety. After the nosewheel is lowered to the runway, moderate braking should be applied. If deceleration is not detected and hydroplaning is suspected, the nose should be raised and aerodynamic drag utilized to decelerate to a point where the brakes do become effective.
Proper braking technique is essential. The brakes should be applied firmly until reaching a point just short of a skid. At the first sign of a skid, the pilot should release brake pressure and allow the wheels to spin up. Directional control should be maintained as far as possible with the rudder. Remember that in a crosswind, if hydroplaning should occur, the crosswind will cause the aircraft to simultaneously weathervane into the wind as well as slide downwind.
 
Top Bottom