Turning with J bars

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upandover

Guru
Location
Liverpool
I'm learning to ride my new recumbent bike. I've done about 15 miles in my local park and track, and I'm doing ok with balance, albeit still prone to wobbles when under pressure!

I've been using the local running track and so can do broad turns. I can't get tighter turns though, and can't see how it's possible. I'm a deductive learner, and like to understand how it works.

When I turn, for example left, I lead with pressure on my feet, with the bike leaning left, and my shoulders shifting slightly the other way to balance the weight. I also turn the handle bars a little. For tighter turns though, such as a 90 degree turn, I can't lean enough, and can only turn the bars a little as my legs are in the way, or sometimes my overlarge stomach.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions of what I might try, or might be doing wrong, please? Tomorrow's plan is turns in a large carpark, which will hopefully help, but I feel I'm missing a technique.

Thanks
James
 
What kind of bike are you learning on? Recumbents have hugely different steering geometries unlike uprights which only have comparative minuscule differences between styles. J-bars suggest to me the Schlitter high racers, which are quite a platform to start on IMHO!
 
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upandover

upandover

Guru
Location
Liverpool
Hi,

That's it. It's a Schlitter Encore. Last night I raised the bar stem as high as it goes (the bars themselves were already high), and this morning while it was quiet went for a short ride, and it's made a huge difference.

They may be too high for the long haul, but I can see now how to lower my leg enough when making a tight turn, and when it's a loose 90 degree turn (a reasonable radius) have enough clearance to keep pedaling to a point. That said I need to learn more about foot strike, and angling feet etc. I think it's going to be a fair amount more work for it to be instinctive. My platform pedals can actually catch the wheel if thay are vertical! I might have to change them.

Not being so concerned about that also meant I could spot that I'm still not instinctively counterbalancing with my body when turning. Lots to learn, but it was so much better. I was able to cycle all the way home.

The other instinct I have on a tight turn is to stick my knee outside the bars to pedal. I shall have to work on that. :smile:

Thanks 404.
 

a.twiddler

Veteran
As you have said, there are ways to adapt to riding a machine built for speed rather than convenience. Body parts can be moved to avoid striking the bars, front wheel, etc. Wheelstrike with your heel is one thing, where you can angle your heel outwards to minimise contact but if your pedal is contacting the wheel that could lead to an off. Perhaps changing the pedal might eliminate it, more likely something like shorter cranks if the boom can't be moved out slightly. It's early days yet, and it might be something that can be solved by adjustment as you get more accustomed to riding it, rather than changing parts at this stage. Like an upright bike, correct seat to pedal adjustment is when your heel is on the pedal and your knee is straight or very slightly bent. Individuals vary a bit. It may be that your boom might need to be fractionally further out as you gain confidence. Even a small adjustment could help with pedal strike and bar clearance.

It is said that if you've ridden a motorbike you will take to riding a recumbent two wheeler more easily. A basic principle is to keep the power on, pedal gently into turns, with a bit of back brake to keep the transmission in tension and help low speed control. It helps to reduce that feeling of falling inwards in turns, and that urge to put your foot down.

For gentle turns at higher speed when the bars don't move much, a bit of gentle pressure on the inside bar makes the bike "fall " slightly into that direction of turn. At low speeds, it's a matter of practice as you're balancing that tendency to fall into the turn with keeping enough centripetal force to stay upright but not fall outwards. I learnt to ride on a LWB Linear which I imagine would be much easier than the Schlitter. It is quite an upright machine. The lower and more reclined a bike is, the steeper the learning curve. If there is any adjustment to the seat recline, it helps at first to make it as upright as it will go. It helps also to look at a spot ahead of the bike rather than at the front wheel, as we are programmed in such a way that where the eyes go, the body will follow.

Riding on two wheels in a straight line is a form of controlled falling, a fraction to the left, a fraction to the right, and you can see from wheel tracks that the front wheel follows a series of S shaped curves while the rear follows with a less curvaceous track. All the while you are unconsciously keeping your centre of gravity between the wheels. A tall bike is much easier to learn to balance than a low one so there's a lot of re learning going on, especially at high angles of recline. It's mostly just a matter of practice. If "falling with style" is good enough for Buzz Lightyear, it's good enough for me!
 
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upandover

upandover

Guru
Location
Liverpool
That's really good advice, thank you. I shall try that on the turns. I replaced the seat struts (temporarily with copper pipe!), so I could raise the seat a little more, as it was built by a lovely chap for low speed. I've only gone up and down my road on it with the seat higher, but the difference was noticeable immediately. It felt a lot more light upright balancing, which of course I've been doing for years. :smile:

I shall keep an eye on the pedals for now. I probably do have a cm extra reach available on leg length and that may make a difference. It came with small carbon/something-ainium cage pedals, and I put big platforms on, so can always switch back.
Thanks
James
 

a.twiddler

Veteran
Sometimes the fear of something such as heel strike can be more limiting than the actual occurrence. There are a lot of SWB recumbents where it doesn't happen, and there are plenty where it does, and riders just learn to adapt by splaying their heels out or pushing the pedals round in a partial circle in tight turns, until it's not an issue any more. If in doubt, while doing a u turn you can always Fred Flintstone it and paddle round using your feet. You've got a high bottom bracket, so getting confidence to keep your feet up as much as possible helps, as it's pain to be stopping and starting , and having to get your feet up and down from there any more than you have to. With practice, you ought to eventually almost be able to do trackstands and get going again without putting your feet down.

Looking at pictures of the J bars, there's loads of adjustment. I found when first I tried cockpit style bars that there was a lot of tiller effect as the grips were a long way behind the steering axis. That meant that the bars swung a lot for a small amount of wheel movement and made tight turns difficult as the bars hit my legs. The solution in my case was to turn the stem round. This brought the grips forward, closer to the steering axis meaning that the bars didn't swing so much in tight turns giving more room for my legs, and it felt more stable. I don't know if you are in the same situation but maybe adjusting the bars so the grips are closer the steering axis might give more legroom. The Schlitter probably has way different geometry to the bikes I ride but I would think that the thought of the bars contacting your legs unexpectedly while trying to turn is just as much a confidence sapping thing as it was for me. You might not be able to get rid of it entirely but reducing it would help a lot.

When I started riding recumbents there always seemed to be a gap between launching and reaching 4-5 mph, where I felt unstable and wobbled. I came to realise that if I kept going, it would become more stable as the speed increased. It was counter intuitive, as I originally feared that if I speeded up I'd just be going faster when I fell off. My first ride had me riding along a road, avoiding junctions or anything that would cause me to change speed or direction in case I wobbled and fell off. It was scary but amazing at the same time. It took a while to realise that if you relaxed the death grip on the bars, the bike would take care of itself. It's hard to relax while riding something so strange and different, but that's what you have to do. It took a while, but I learned to ride to a standstill before putting my feet down, and slow riding is really relaxing.

Starting uphill is just something that you do now. I remember getting really anxious at a local uphill traffic light, getting across busy junctions, stopping and starting in traffic. It's just something that you do, and traffic that I thought was getting in a queue to flatten me one by one actually gives masses of space as they don't know what to make of a recumbent. There were times when I sat by the roadside almost frozen by anxiety, delaying launching. I found that it's too easy to get into a state where you over think things. I learned that whatever your doubts and doom laden imaginings, Just Do It. What's the worst that can happen? I've only fallen off once, unfortunately into a handy patch of nettles, off road when I hadn't yet got the hang of the gearing, and stalled on a steep hill.

It's just practice and perseverance, and although there may be setbacks along the way, the next ride will always be different.
 

Conrad_K

Active Member
Last night I raised the bar stem as high as it goes (the bars themselves were already high), and this morning while it was quiet went for a short ride, and it's made a huge difference.
I have found that very small adjustments can sometimes have outside effects on rideability.
 
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