Training with Power

[Heltor Chasca]

Be my guest. Please contribute a constructive post on trainING with power. What's stopping you?

I did much earlier on when things were sensible but now it’s drowning in ego gravy.

 

[Bill Gates]

I did much earlier on when things were sensible but now it’s drowning in ego gravy.

Play the ball and not the man. Cheap remark playING to the gallery. No respect

 

[fossyant]

Power meters are another useful tool especially if racing. Back in the day, I used to go off HR, we didn't have power meters, and I'd be able to judge how well I was doing with perceived effort against heart rate (not particularly scientific).

It's just another useful tool if racing and if your average power and FTP is increasing then the training plan is going well.

I don't race any more, so it's not much use to us 'recreational' cyclists - just more kit I don't need.

Was I still racing, hell, yeh, I'd get one.

Thinks like Zwift are quite useful for gauging progress. You ride the 'same course' in the 'same conditions' each time you do a said route - if you are going better over the various sections, it let's you know. But, riding in groups affects the results with virtual drafting, so you'd have to ride solo on training runs. The training programmes within the software are also good visual ways of training.

So many more tools out there these days to help with training if you are competing.

 

[Milkfloat]

Well I opened this thread to hopefully learn something more about how other people are using power, as for me it is a key tool along with HR and RPE. I am a bit disappointed that someone with no power meter experience starts a thread asking about them and then tries to trash the concept without actually trying it.

Personally, I use power inside (Tacx Neo) and outside (failed Avio and successful Garmin Vector). If I could chose only one metric for my training then without doubt it would be Power as the numbers are absolute (within reason). In reality a combination is needed. Power alone only tells me what I am achieving, it tells me nothing about how I am feeling. I have had session where I only put out an average of 250 watts which feel like the hardest sessions ever and others sessions where I can churn out 330 watts and feel as fresh as daisy. By knowing both my Power and HR (and to a certain extent RPE) I know what I am achieving, can pace myself but most of all can track longer term trends.

Power also opens up all sorts of other useful metrics like stress score.

 

[Bill Gates]

I am a bit disappointed that someone with no power meter experience starts a thread asking about them and then tries to trash the concept without actually trying it.

Power also opens up all sorts of other useful metrics like stress score.

Another falsehood. Please point out any quote showing I'm trashing the concept of training with power. My own son uses it. The best stress score is how you feel. Just an opinion mind.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

Yup TSS (Training Stress Score) is a winner for me @Milkfloat I have built up a pattern over 2 years and I think I might have my winter and summer riding a bit cock a hoop. How to invert? I seem to be fittest around February and March.

I remember another metric I trained with when I sailed at a high level (2 x world championships)....DSS (Dad stress score)

 

[Stompier]

The best stress score is how you feel

Which simply underlines the fact that you don't understand what TSS is.

 

[Milkfloat]

Another falsehood. Please point out any quote showing I'm trashing the concept of training with power. My own son uses it. The best stress score is how you feel. Just an opinion mind.

I've won a few 100 mile TT's in my time and I used to break it down mentally to 4 x 25 mile segments. This involved holding back in the first two segments from the effort produced for a 25 mile TT and then building the effort on the third to a flat out effort as though it was a 25 mile TT on the 4th segment. Knowing wattage practically useless.

 

[Bill Gates]

That's not disparaging power for training. so does not count (strawman again). This is a 100 mile TT race, and I would be enlightened if you could tell me, knowing your FTP, how I should use a power meter in this event.

 

[Bill Gates]

Which simply underlines the fact that you don't understand what TSS is.

No need

 

[Bill Gates]

Which simply underlines the fact that you don't understand what TSS is.

And yet another meaningless throwaway comment for the gallery

 

[Stompier]

No need

Earlier you were talking about the need to be open-minded.

 

[Milkfloat]

That's not disparaging power for training. so does not count (strawman again). This is a 100 mile TT race, and I would be enlightened if you could tell me, knowing your FTP, how I should use a power meter in this event.

A power meter would allow you to ride within yourself and not under or over cook it too early. Despite knowing your body it is easy to get this wrong as no matter how experinced you are your body can and does fool you. You would have the ability to keep a relatively constant power output (given the terrain) which would be the most efficient over that distance. However, power alone would not help as you also need to work out your feel (including HR in that) to make sure that you can adjust for having a good day or a bad day. Your example of negative splits is most likely not the most efficient.

 

[Bill Gates]

A power meter would allow you to ride within yourself and not under or over cook it too early. Despite knowing your body it is easy to get this wrong as no matter how experinced you are your body can and does fool you. You would have the ability to keep a relatively constant power output (given the terrain) which would be the most efficient over that distance. However, power alone would not help as you also need to work out your feel (including HR in that) to make sure that you can adjust for having a good day or a bad day. Your example of negative splits is most likely not the most efficient.

Good answer. At last somebody playing the ball.
I'm not sure if you've raced a 100 mile TT. You didn't say whether you had or not. When you get the start sheet you look to see where your competition is and develop a strategy based on if you think another rider or riders are a danger to you. If you want to win then you don't want to leave any energy back out on the course. Going around any course there are going to be hills somewhere. My strategy was to hold back on the climbs and give it welly on the downhill to gain momentum and save energy for later. Feeding early and keeping hydrated important obviously. Then getting time checks from helpers on the other riders helped to decide on whether to increase or decrease the pace accordingly.
Noting that other riders were receiving information on me they would also be reacting to that information.
In the last 25 miles I would treat it like a 25 mile TT. I remember a club mate remarking to me in 100 mile TT who saw me as he was going the opposite direction on the road that I looked as though as I was suffering. He was right but not from fatigue but from the effort. You never know for real if it is a negative split because of terrain and weather conditions. But in terms of eye balls effort is was definitely a negative split.

There might have been a case for using a power meter in the first 50 miles but the realities of a racing strategy involve different efforts over different terrain and into or with the wind on you back.

 

[ColinJ]

Going around any course there are going to be hills somewhere. My strategy was to hold back on the climbs and give it welly on the downhill to gain momentum and save energy for later.

I have never competed, but I do ride an awful lot of long and/or steep hills and descents. I am fairly sure that this is not the best strategy!

Climbs are where you are going slowest and will lose a lot of time so making an effort there will save quite a lot of time. Descents are where you are going fast anyway so there is little time to save. It takes a huge effort to go even faster than very fast and you won't gain a lot of extra time for the effort.

For example, I could save 5 minutes on the Cragg Vale climb by trying hard. I do the descent off that at up to 90 km/hr with little effort so I could not save more than a few seconds no matter how hard I tried. Better to save the energy for the flat or the climbs.