MattHB
Proud Daddy
- Location
- Deepest darkest Dorset
Yes but this isn't the only way to use TP, although its the designed way ill admit.
Training peaks and coach
- Thread starter johnpembo73
- Start date
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Yes but this isn't the only way to use TP, although its the designed way ill admit.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
No-one in this thread said it was though 
I asked if he had a power meter because he said he wanted to increase power output and I wondered how he was going to quantify this.
I asked if he had a power meter because he said he wanted to increase power output and I wondered how he was going to quantify this.
OP
OP
johnpembo73
Active Member
- Location
- crewe
Thanks for everyone taking their time to look and respond. I have sent the email contact to TP so hopefully they will come back with something. I still think I need pointing in the right direction with training so any help would be appreciated. For those who are full members of TP how do you find using the software is it easy to learn?
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
The use of the software is likely to be fairly easy, but the problem you will likely face is getting the inputs right (i.e. knowing the required thresholds that certain zones will be calculated from, knowing your starting point for weekly training stress score's etc) and being able to understand the outputs. If you do not know what the information means, it is of no use.
I would suggest reading the books by Joe Friel and Chris Carmichael, these two coaches have had a lot of input into TP and will explain in great detail the process of planning, executing, reviewing and adjusting a training plan in order to achieve a series of goals. I have read Joe Friel's text's and they are quite dry and scientific, can take a bit of effort to read, but it is worth it in the long run, I have not read Carmichael's books, so can not comment.
I would suggest reading the books by Joe Friel and Chris Carmichael, these two coaches have had a lot of input into TP and will explain in great detail the process of planning, executing, reviewing and adjusting a training plan in order to achieve a series of goals. I have read Joe Friel's text's and they are quite dry and scientific, can take a bit of effort to read, but it is worth it in the long run, I have not read Carmichael's books, so can not comment.
amaferanga
Veteran
- Location
- Bolton
My advice would be to buy a power meter (either a PowerTap for about £500 or a Power2max for ~£800) and then use Golden Cheetah v3.0. This is a free piece of software that has pretty much all of the metrics that Training Peaks and WKO+ have. You can track your training load, look at various metrics over time, etc.. Training Peaks is a waste of money unless you have a power meter IMO (I know some will say otherwise, but that's just my opinion) unless you really, really need something that's web-based.
And any power guesses based on your HR/speed will be so far off as to be completely useless at best and probably misleading. If you don't have a power meter just don't worry about trying to quantify power by guessing it. It won't help.
I'd say that given your current understanding of training then you will get a LOT from buying a power meter and then (before you use it) reading a couple of good books including Training and Racing with a Power Meter by Allen and Coggan. Then if you are still struggling, find a good coach that has plenty of experience with power-based training and athletes with your kind of vague goals.
And any power guesses based on your HR/speed will be so far off as to be completely useless at best and probably misleading. If you don't have a power meter just don't worry about trying to quantify power by guessing it. It won't help.
I'd say that given your current understanding of training then you will get a LOT from buying a power meter and then (before you use it) reading a couple of good books including Training and Racing with a Power Meter by Allen and Coggan. Then if you are still struggling, find a good coach that has plenty of experience with power-based training and athletes with your kind of vague goals.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
What power meter do you use ^^ any experience of the Power2Max? I am currently in the saving and researching period with an aim to buying a power meter. By Feb/March next year (sooner if an informed decision can be made by then).
amaferanga
Veteran
- Location
- Bolton
I had a PowerTap Pro+ for 2 and a bit years. It was great, no issues with it until the torque tube failed in August this year. Sent it off to Paligap who wanted about £500 to repair it so I said no thanks and bought a Power2max SRAM S900 version for not much more. I've had a couple of issues with the P2M, in particular a software crash issue, but P2M have sorted that out now. It's not a problem that affects all P2M so I wouldn't let it worry you. The P2M issue that everyone talks about is the temperature-related drift, but there's now an update that includes temperature compensation stuff. It was only really a problem if you don't stop pedalling at all when there are big changes in temperature to let the unit auto-zero anyway. The numbers I was seeing before I sent mine back for repair were always believable so I think P2M have nailed it. Can be swapped between bikes in ~2 minutes so it's not much more of a pain swapping between bikes than it is for a wheel. One current niggle with the P2M is that software updates can only be performed by sending it back to Germany. I believe they're working on a way for users to do their own updates though, which would be great. It cost me £12 to send mine back to Germany and it took 3 weeks to sort it out which was a pain (I think they're very busy updating older P2Ms to add the temperature compensation stuff at the moment though).
Even though PowerTap hubs aren't that heavy, you really do notice the weight on the back wheel and the limitations it places on wheel choice became an issue for me as well. If you race then you really should race with the power meter as it provides a lot of useful information on what you did right or wrong, but that means you need to find a rim that'll work for training and racing. I settled on a 50mm carbon clincher rim for the summer months and I then swapped to an IRD Cadence alloy rim at the end of the race season. It worked, but training on a carbon rim isn't exactly ideal (I think I got away with it because I don't weigh much and I'm generally quite careful with my wheels).
Even though PowerTap hubs aren't that heavy, you really do notice the weight on the back wheel and the limitations it places on wheel choice became an issue for me as well. If you race then you really should race with the power meter as it provides a lot of useful information on what you did right or wrong, but that means you need to find a rim that'll work for training and racing. I settled on a 50mm carbon clincher rim for the summer months and I then swapped to an IRD Cadence alloy rim at the end of the race season. It worked, but training on a carbon rim isn't exactly ideal (I think I got away with it because I don't weigh much and I'm generally quite careful with my wheels).
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Yes, the wheel limitations have all but ruled out power tap for me, I want to both train and time trial with a power meter, crits and road races, it is less important, but could still be handy for review purposes. I have been looking at power2max for a few weeks, but wondering if I should save up for a Quarq unit! The zero'ing issue on the power2max, well that is still a bit odd that you can not turn it off or manually zero, because just because you are not pedalling doesn't neccessarily mean you are not applying power, so the zero'ing might not be accurate?
amaferanga
Veteran
- Location
- Bolton
You can manually zero with a Garmin, but you can't turn off auto-zeroing. Rather than turn off auto-zeroing, I'd prefer to see the latest zero offset sent to the head unit. At the moment with my Edge 500, I can see the latest zero offset value when I do a manual zero, but not with an auto-zero. I can see that it's stable at constant temperature and I can track the value at the start of a ride (which usually means going from ~21 degrees to ~10 degrees at the moment) if I stop every few minutes and do a manual zero (I did this when I first got it just to see what number I'd get). But the latest auto zero just isn't sent to the head unit. This applies to all power meters with an auto-zero feature used with a Garmin and most other head units as far as I'm aware. I had erroneous auto-zeroing with my PowerTap a number of times.
Now, if Garmin or another head unit manufacturer were to include a new data field called 'zero offset' and the power meter manufacturers were to send this value to the head unit each time a new auto zero completes then you could have confidence that the power numbers you're seeing are correct. I've a good idea what the zero offset will settle at depending on temperature so I'd know if there was a failed auto-zero just from being able to see that number. The number would also be in the ride file so you'd have a record if there were any changes over time.
P2M claim that it's virtually impossible for the auto-zeroing algorithm to produce an erroneous value from pressure being applied to the pedals. That may well be true, but it'd be nice to see and have a record of the number to verify that.
Now, if Garmin or another head unit manufacturer were to include a new data field called 'zero offset' and the power meter manufacturers were to send this value to the head unit each time a new auto zero completes then you could have confidence that the power numbers you're seeing are correct. I've a good idea what the zero offset will settle at depending on temperature so I'd know if there was a failed auto-zero just from being able to see that number. The number would also be in the ride file so you'd have a record if there were any changes over time.
P2M claim that it's virtually impossible for the auto-zeroing algorithm to produce an erroneous value from pressure being applied to the pedals. That may well be true, but it'd be nice to see and have a record of the number to verify that.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
In your opinion, would you recommend saving the extra and going for a Quarq unit or are you very much pro p2m now you have used one? I am not a high level racer, I just want to make the most of my time as this year will be one of my busiest in other aspects of life also, so I need to make every ride count and as far as I can see, a power meter is a great way to allow me to do this effectively and IMO offers good value for money in this respect (i.e. allowing me to train and race smart, to get the most out of my time, under no silly impressions of it turning me into an elite racer, incase anyone want's to toss that out there I am also very much aware and acknowledge that it is not needed, but I want it!).
I am also very much aware and acknowledge that it is not needed, but I want it!).
black'n'yellow
Guest
In your opinion, would you recommend saving the extra and going for a Quarq unit or are you very much pro p2m now you have used one? I am not a high level racer, I just want to make the most of my time as this year will be one of my busiest in other aspects of life also, so I need to make every ride count and as far as I can see, a power meter is a great way to allow me to do this effectively and IMO offers good value for money in this respect (i.e. allowing me to train and race smart, to get the most out of my time, under no silly impressions of it turning me into an elite racer, incase anyone want's to toss that out there
sounds like you are buying one for the right reasons - no other justification needed IMO...
amaferanga
Veteran
- Location
- Bolton
I've no experience of Quarq so I can't really compare. If I'm honest though I'd probably have got one if I had enough spare cash at the time, though only because there're more of them around. There's also a Rotor power meter coming early next year that should be around the same price as a Quarq and people seem to be quite excited about it.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Thanks, will keep looking, so far my most likely buy will be a power2max Rotor 3D +. I do not think I will use asymetrical chainrings though, will either got the the round Rotor chainrings, or maybe some SRAM Red chainrings. Another predicament is I will train, race and TT on the power meter, so in TT's will probably prefer a solid chainring, as I currently have fitted, worth swapping chainrings around often or just run a solid TT ring, even on the road bike? There is ofc a weight penalty but... who cares? Also my TT bike is running a Vision Trimax BB30 chainset, my CAAD is a BB30 frame but that has a converter pressed in and is running Shimano Hollowtech BB, so will need to get this pressed back out. Then I should be able to switch the PM between bikes very easily and quickly.
Need to do some more reading (big fan of Friel's books but havent read much else), will read the Coggan text's, I can probably borrow them from someone in the club, will also speak to a few people in the club about it.
Need to do some more reading (big fan of Friel's books but havent read much else), will read the Coggan text's, I can probably borrow them from someone in the club, will also speak to a few people in the club about it.
Looks like you have your mind made up in a different direction but you could hire a basic Powertap for a few months and get the feel for training with power? Would set you back about £150 for 3 months.
I hired a basic Powertap from cyclepowermeters a couple of years back (it was my Xmas present that year) just to find out what all the hoo hah was about PM's. I ended up keeping it for about 8 months until the batteries died and i couldn't get the cover off! (neither could my LBS).
If you the ordered a Quarq or whatever from them afterwards i reckon you'd get a good deal having rented. Just a thought...
I hired a basic Powertap from cyclepowermeters a couple of years back (it was my Xmas present that year) just to find out what all the hoo hah was about PM's. I ended up keeping it for about 8 months until the batteries died and i couldn't get the cover off! (neither could my LBS).
If you the ordered a Quarq or whatever from them afterwards i reckon you'd get a good deal having rented. Just a thought...
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Hiring it is IMO a massive waste of money, could buy one, put it on your rim of choice then sell it 3-6 months on and loose about the same or even less money. But I do take your point on board. A club mate did the hire to buy thing.
It is especially a waste of money in the case that I pretty much know I don't want a power tap. You can never be certain on what sort of deal they would offer on a Quarq, so I wouldnt fancy risking it tbh.
Thanks for the comment's though. Curious re. your experience of the powertap though, how did you like it? For me the logistics of the powertap just doesn't make sense, I would need 2 of them to train and race.
