wiggydiggy
Guru
I bought a book over Christmas which recounts tails of railway travel woe in the mid 1990s directly following privatisation, it's good to know things have got better since then (or not, read the story lol).
Train travel and bikes: a low-level rant
- Thread starter Rhythm Thief
- Start date
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
I thought that @Littgull might have been exaggerating when he told me of his difficulties travelling with a bike on Arriva Trains Wales...
HLaB
Marie Attoinette Fan
I'm fortunate and my commute takes me on a line without restrictions. There's not many of them left but I actually prefer the older rolling stock that doesn't actually have a dedicated bike space as it less likely to be blocked by luggage or folk in it.
The new stock once the train starts to empty.
I wouldn't dare take a bike on my old commute and drove 25 miles and cycled 12 faster than the more indirect train that only ran once an hour between Birmingham and Stansted and was the main Pottyboro to Cambridge commuter line. So it was sized to meet the demand, not! 2 carriages totally crammed with commuters and luggage 😵💫 Oh and did I mention it stopped at 8pm. That was a total joke, it's no wonder the A1/A14 are totally feic'd
The new stock once the train starts to empty.
I wouldn't dare take a bike on my old commute and drove 25 miles and cycled 12 faster than the more indirect train that only ran once an hour between Birmingham and Stansted and was the main Pottyboro to Cambridge commuter line. So it was sized to meet the demand, not! 2 carriages totally crammed with commuters and luggage 😵💫 Oh and did I mention it stopped at 8pm. That was a total joke, it's no wonder the A1/A14 are totally feic'd
Supersuperleeds
Legendary Member
- Location
- Leicester
I've never had any problems with EMR. Whilst I think they should have more spaces (most trains have two spaces only) I've never been turned away.
Bonus with EMR is you only need to pre book a space on London bound trains (and even then I've never been turned away without a reservation) Skegness trains at the height of season and for some reason a Liverpool bound train that I think goes from Norwich? (I might be wrong on that last train)
My biggest gripe is the pricing for same day tickets compared to pre booking even the day before travelling. I don't like being tied to chasing a train so rarely pre book a home bound train, and I'm too impatient to sit around somewhere for a couple of hours waiting for a train I know I can catch without rushing.
Bonus with EMR is you only need to pre book a space on London bound trains (and even then I've never been turned away without a reservation) Skegness trains at the height of season and for some reason a Liverpool bound train that I think goes from Norwich? (I might be wrong on that last train)
My biggest gripe is the pricing for same day tickets compared to pre booking even the day before travelling. I don't like being tied to chasing a train so rarely pre book a home bound train, and I'm too impatient to sit around somewhere for a couple of hours waiting for a train I know I can catch without rushing.
mustang1
Legendary Member
- Location
- London, UK
It's the mentality.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Let's try this thing and see where it leads us.
We must engineer the heck out of this thing.
We must make this thing extremely reliable.
There are 4 statements above. Here are 4 countries that each of those statements applies to:
Japan
Germany
UK
USA
Let's see if we can guess which statement goes with which country. Then, we may get the answer to "why is it so difficult?"
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Let's try this thing and see where it leads us.
We must engineer the heck out of this thing.
We must make this thing extremely reliable.
There are 4 statements above. Here are 4 countries that each of those statements applies to:
Japan
Germany
UK
USA
Let's see if we can guess which statement goes with which country. Then, we may get the answer to "why is it so difficult?"
Boopop
Guru
As someone who uses bike + train as their main mode of transport and over the past few years has been on several trips in the European mainland (France and Italy so far), I'd like to provide a slightly different perspective:
European rail networks
Pros
- Usually one website/app for all rail travel in a given country, no screwing around with different franchises
- Cheaper tickets usually
- Faster trains with often better quality furnishings
- I've never had luggage in the way of where I'm supposed to put my bike
Cons
- Some of the French double decker trains force you to hang your bike in the single level entrance sections, if you want to sit with your bike and stop it getting stolen, you're left with crappy fold down seats.
- I've been on one slow rail service from Paris to Limoges where not only was the carriage entrance way higher than the platform, so pushing the bike on board was difficult, but also the bike carriage seemed ancient and of a poor quality as well as being noisy, compared to the other carriages which while equally old on the outside, were much more pleasant on the inside. So this point and the one above, you're more likely to feel like a bit of a loner in 3rd/4th class on at least French trains.
- Taking a bike on board often costs extra, even if it's only ten or so Euros
- The big one for me - not all high speed rail services take full sized bicycles.
- In addition to the above, it's not obvious which fast services you can take fully assembled bikes on. I usually end up on the Man in Seat 61 site to work it out
-You tell SNCF for example you want to take a fully assembled bike on the journey you're searching for, and if none of the high speed services it'd usually suggest can take full sized bikes, it'll just tell you there's no rail services available...completely ignoring the fact if you just take a series of slow trains, you can just get on trains without reservation
British Rail Networks
Pros
- Vast majority of rail services (excluding commuter and Lumo) will take full sized bicycles, for free. You may sometimes need a reservation.
- You'll usally be sharing a carriage with everyone else, where either you'll have your bike behind you and no-one else can access (Pendolino), it'll be in a cupboard close to where you're sat, hopefully (GWR,Avanti Voyager - ah I guess it's Avanti 80x now) or you'll have a space often near the toilet on the local trains, see cons below for one issue with this.
- Some TOC's like London North Western and Northern will tell you can't take trailers, cargo bikes, tandems, but particularly if the train is quiet or it's a small cargo bike or tandem anyway, you can probably get away with it. In fairness the same might be true of France/Italy but I've never tried it.
- Avanti explicitly allow tandems on their Pendolinos.
- A lot of the local services they'll just let you put a bike by the door on any of the carriages anyway.
Cons
- Franchise system, so each TOC has a different policy, which is difficult to navigate. I don't think European systems are easy to navigate either though. I wanted a bike bag (no full sized bikes on them!) on a Frecciarossa. The dimensions on their site said it was too big, but their staff didn't care 🤷♂️.
- Some TOCs will make you hang your bike, which is particularly restrictive to people with heavy bikes/mobility issues.
- If the train is too busy the platform staff are able to just flatly tell you not to board. Hasn't happened to me yet, fortunately.
- GWR system is particularly ridiculous. The bike storage space is also a luggage space, except you only need a reservation for a bike, but not luggage 😤
I've spent too long on this, thought I might!
The TL;DR from me though is yes, UK rail services are far from perfect (or cheap) but the one advantage we have over Europe (which people generally consider to have a better rail system) is that all routes will carry full sized bikes. That's simply not the case in France and Italy, Spain, and I suspect many other countries in Europe and elsewhere.
European rail networks
Pros
- Usually one website/app for all rail travel in a given country, no screwing around with different franchises
- Cheaper tickets usually
- Faster trains with often better quality furnishings
- I've never had luggage in the way of where I'm supposed to put my bike
Cons
- Some of the French double decker trains force you to hang your bike in the single level entrance sections, if you want to sit with your bike and stop it getting stolen, you're left with crappy fold down seats.
- I've been on one slow rail service from Paris to Limoges where not only was the carriage entrance way higher than the platform, so pushing the bike on board was difficult, but also the bike carriage seemed ancient and of a poor quality as well as being noisy, compared to the other carriages which while equally old on the outside, were much more pleasant on the inside. So this point and the one above, you're more likely to feel like a bit of a loner in 3rd/4th class on at least French trains.
- Taking a bike on board often costs extra, even if it's only ten or so Euros
- The big one for me - not all high speed rail services take full sized bicycles.
- In addition to the above, it's not obvious which fast services you can take fully assembled bikes on. I usually end up on the Man in Seat 61 site to work it out
-You tell SNCF for example you want to take a fully assembled bike on the journey you're searching for, and if none of the high speed services it'd usually suggest can take full sized bikes, it'll just tell you there's no rail services available...completely ignoring the fact if you just take a series of slow trains, you can just get on trains without reservation
British Rail Networks
Pros
- Vast majority of rail services (excluding commuter and Lumo) will take full sized bicycles, for free. You may sometimes need a reservation.
- You'll usally be sharing a carriage with everyone else, where either you'll have your bike behind you and no-one else can access (Pendolino), it'll be in a cupboard close to where you're sat, hopefully (GWR,
- Some TOC's like London North Western and Northern will tell you can't take trailers, cargo bikes, tandems, but particularly if the train is quiet or it's a small cargo bike or tandem anyway, you can probably get away with it. In fairness the same might be true of France/Italy but I've never tried it.
- Avanti explicitly allow tandems on their Pendolinos.
- A lot of the local services they'll just let you put a bike by the door on any of the carriages anyway.
Cons
- Franchise system, so each TOC has a different policy, which is difficult to navigate. I don't think European systems are easy to navigate either though. I wanted a bike bag (no full sized bikes on them!) on a Frecciarossa. The dimensions on their site said it was too big, but their staff didn't care 🤷♂️.
- Some TOCs will make you hang your bike, which is particularly restrictive to people with heavy bikes/mobility issues.
- If the train is too busy the platform staff are able to just flatly tell you not to board. Hasn't happened to me yet, fortunately.
- GWR system is particularly ridiculous. The bike storage space is also a luggage space, except you only need a reservation for a bike, but not luggage 😤
I've spent too long on this, thought I might!
The TL;DR from me though is yes, UK rail services are far from perfect (or cheap) but the one advantage we have over Europe (which people generally consider to have a better rail system) is that all routes will carry full sized bikes. That's simply not the case in France and Italy, Spain, and I suspect many other countries in Europe and elsewhere.
Boopop
Guru
To add to the above:
Bullitt on a Class 350 EMU
Hase Pino electric semi-recumbent tandem (always a mouthful) on a Northern rail service to Windermere with mama Boopop:
The Pino again on a Pendelino, on my way to Manchester to visit my sister:
Pendo's are great because yes, the need for a reservation is a hassle, but unlike most other rail services I've been on, your bike gets stored in its own compartment which no-one else can access, so you can relax in the main carriage in peace. Just cross your fingers the staff let you off 🙃
My point is yes, booking bikes on trains in the UK is a mess, but if you get a good understanding of how it works, you can actually do things that you might struggle to do in any other country*.
*OK, that was a very optimistic guess based on limited experience, but that's how it feels!
Bullitt on a Class 350 EMU
Hase Pino electric semi-recumbent tandem (always a mouthful) on a Northern rail service to Windermere with mama Boopop:
The Pino again on a Pendelino, on my way to Manchester to visit my sister:
Pendo's are great because yes, the need for a reservation is a hassle, but unlike most other rail services I've been on, your bike gets stored in its own compartment which no-one else can access, so you can relax in the main carriage in peace. Just cross your fingers the staff let you off 🙃
My point is yes, booking bikes on trains in the UK is a mess, but if you get a good understanding of how it works, you can actually do things that you might struggle to do in any other country*.
*OK, that was a very optimistic guess based on limited experience, but that's how it feels!
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
x
No worries here.
Admittedly these are 'local' trains, because I have a "Deutschland Ticket" which is an all local transport pass all over Germany for 58€, so I rarely travel on an intercity or ICE train. Local trains are generally fairly efficient and usually turn up on time, mostly, give or take, and you can travel a surprisingly long way surprisingly quickly, without using an intercity train.
Intercity trains, however, also have space for bikes, although they need a reservation / ticket, and after a certain amount of "the dog ate our homework" level excuses, DB have finally allowed bicycle carriage in ICE trains.
That said, I do have a folding bike, because even in my rural area trains get a bit full at peak times, and locally I have to buy a bicycle ticket to travel between 06:30 and 09:00, and it's easier to hoik it up the steps on some older trains. I also frequently travel to family who live on top of a very steep hill, so it's nice to take the bus (and covered by my Deutschland Ticket). It's also handy when travelling to family in Summer, when the empty trains above can get very full of cycle tourists with very heavily loaded bikes and no clue how to transport them on a train...
No worries here.
Admittedly these are 'local' trains, because I have a "Deutschland Ticket" which is an all local transport pass all over Germany for 58€, so I rarely travel on an intercity or ICE train. Local trains are generally fairly efficient and usually turn up on time, mostly, give or take, and you can travel a surprisingly long way surprisingly quickly, without using an intercity train.
Intercity trains, however, also have space for bikes, although they need a reservation / ticket, and after a certain amount of "the dog ate our homework" level excuses, DB have finally allowed bicycle carriage in ICE trains.
That said, I do have a folding bike, because even in my rural area trains get a bit full at peak times, and locally I have to buy a bicycle ticket to travel between 06:30 and 09:00, and it's easier to hoik it up the steps on some older trains. I also frequently travel to family who live on top of a very steep hill, so it's nice to take the bus (and covered by my Deutschland Ticket). It's also handy when travelling to family in Summer, when the empty trains above can get very full of cycle tourists with very heavily loaded bikes and no clue how to transport them on a train...
chriswoody
Legendary Member
- Location
- Northern Germany
@Andy in Germany . You Southerners have it hard, up here in the north we have a whole carriage for the bikes! OK only on the Metronom trains, the DB trains have a tiny amount of room and I try to avoid them like the plague.
The Deutschland ticket is great, I actually get one provided tax free through my work, so last year it was €33 a month for unlimited travel on regional trains throughout Germany. As you say, folders are free and full size bikes are €6 a day, but just turn up and travel.
Travel on ICE trains has been a thing for a number of years now, it is limited to about 6 bikes and they need to be hung up by there front wheel, a bit of a git if there loaded up for touring or have mountain bike tires. The older Inter City trains are a better bet they generally have more bike space but you do have to lift them up into the carriage.
The Deutschland ticket is great, I actually get one provided tax free through my work, so last year it was €33 a month for unlimited travel on regional trains throughout Germany. As you say, folders are free and full size bikes are €6 a day, but just turn up and travel.
Travel on ICE trains has been a thing for a number of years now, it is limited to about 6 bikes and they need to be hung up by there front wheel, a bit of a git if there loaded up for touring or have mountain bike tires. The older Inter City trains are a better bet they generally have more bike space but you do have to lift them up into the carriage.
Boopop
Guru
Don't get me wrong, I know most if not all local trains in mainland European countries allow full sized bikes. My point was if you're trying to go car free and need to get to the other end of the country on a high speed train with a bike, it's relatively easy in the UK. I recall reading up on Germany's system, and apparently some ICE (high speed trains) do, some don't. According to The Man in Seat 61 website "However, bikes are only carried on high-speed ICE trains if they are operated by ICE-T, ICE3neo or ICE4 as these have several bike spaces. There's a fee of around €10, you need to make a reservation for your bicycle.".
Slightly off topic, but on fare pricing, watch this on the different prices for the same trains.
Might be a bit extreme, but it is ridiculous.
https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/01...out-using-railcards-split-or-advance-tickets/
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Didn't know that, very useful, thanks. Any other UK services where that's possible?
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
I've got a planned route from the London Eye to Eye in Suffolk (eye to eye, geddit) that I've been meaning to do for a while. The problem is that the return journey from Diss is reservation only, which would mean allowing a margin for potential delays, and then probably hanging around in Diss for a couple of hours if no delays happen. So I keep putting off doing the ride.
I realise that that's an incredibly "first world" problem. After all, there is a service. And by booking ahead with my Old Git card I should get a good discount.
I realise that that's an incredibly "first world" problem. After all, there is a service. And by booking ahead with my Old Git card I should get a good discount.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Now if this was about “Time Travel and Bikes, a Low Level Rant…”.
