Tour de France 2012 (with SPOILERS)

[dellzeqq]

I ask this as a genuine question of people who have more experience of interpreting pro racing than me. A lot of the comments talk about Wiggins having cracked, or been dropped, or not being able to respond. But it seems to me he has a different style of climbing, where he doesn't accelerate in spurts but just turns his pace up a notch. Suppose Froome had been allowed to go rather than waiting for Wiggins. Is it actually the given that many people are assuming that he'd have taken serious time out of Wiggins - or could Wiggins just have carried on grinding up, a bit faster still, and caught him after a while when he tired? And do we know how close to his limit Wiggins was working? It seems to me nothing happened on yesterday's stage that required him to give his absolute maximum, and with the knowledge of the stages still to come, would it make sense for him to have been keeping something in reserve?

I think you may have something there. Froome had already cracked once. On his own he might have got in to a ding-dong with Nibbles and might then have found himself being overhauled by Wiggins - or not.

The main point is that the effect of Froome's breakaway might have been to reduce Wiggins' lead without offering Froome any significant advantage in relation to Nibali

Froome may yet prove to be Kloden Mk.2. Always second. It's one thing to have the ability to break on a moderate climb, but it's another entirely to plot your way through three weeks with the intention of winning. Kloden, who was a remarkable bike rider, never looked like a winner.

 

[PpPete]

Impressed with Cadel.... must have been so disheartening to get dropped, but he kept on plugging away giving it everything he had left in the tank, I guess in the hope that one of top three has a problem later on.

 

[Beebo]

[QUOTE 1931508, member: 45"]My 7 year old has been watching the tour with me this year. Guess who he's named "bum-cheek chin"?[/quote]

 

[Crackle]

I ask this as a genuine question of people who have more experience of interpreting pro racing than me. A lot of the comments talk about Wiggins having cracked, or been dropped, or not being able to respond. But it seems to me he has a different style of climbing, where he doesn't accelerate in spurts but just turns his pace up a notch. Suppose Froome had been allowed to go rather than waiting for Wiggins. Is it actually the given that many people are assuming that he'd have taken serious time out of Wiggins - or could Wiggins just have carried on grinding up, a bit faster still, and caught him after a while when he tired? And do we know how close to his limit Wiggins was working? It seems to me nothing happened on yesterday's stage that required him to give his absolute maximum, and with the knowledge of the stages still to come, would it make sense for him to have been keeping something in reserve?

Maybe: Wiggins looked at the limit though. His face is rarely a grimace and when it is I suspect he's at the limit and it was set in a grimace a few times yesterday. Who knows though. We'll see.

 

[smutchin]

Who knows what would have happened if Froome had been allowed to go? He might well have caught Rolland and won the stage.

But the team were never going to allow anything to happen that could have risked Nibali taking potentially vital seconds off Wiggo with more big mountain stages to come. It looked like a hot-headed moment and the DS soon reminded him of team orders.

Another argument in favour of banning radios?

d.

 

[dellzeqq]

Impressed with Cadel.... must have been so disheartening to get dropped, but he kept on plugging away giving it everything he had left in the tank, I guess in the hope that one of top three has a problem later on.

absolutely. And impressed with van Garderen's commitment to the team when he clearly has his own ambitions

 

[PpPete]

Quite a contrast with FS who just about sat up and drifted along until TJ and Cadel came past and he had a wheel to follow.

 

[beastie]

absolutely. And impressed with van Garderen's commitment to the team when he clearly has his own ambitions

Think TVG will be a GC leader next year. He looks a class act.

 

[dellzeqq]

the other question is this. Let's assume that Froome could have won the Vuelta if Brailsford had arranged things differently. He had a choice then - stay with Sky or ply his trade elsewhere -and a lot of teams would have signed him up. He stayed with Sky, which is a perfectly honourable thing. If he doesn't get the deal he's looking for, he can move next year, and, who knows, win a GT with his new team.

Wiggins' 'selective hearing' brings Hinault to mind. It takes a certain kind of ruthlessness to be the top rider in a talented team, and maybe Wiggins ruthlessness offers Froome a lesson. Perhaps a call to Greg Lemond might be in order.

 

[iLB]

Jonathan Vaughters on Twitter - Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
Froome had every opportunity to go be leader of many a team after Vuelta. He turned it down. It was his choice to to stay with Brad at Sky.

Basically is saying he wanted Froome at Garmin and other teams wanted the same,

 

[yello]

I don't think Barry Wiggins has explosive power. Barnaby Wiggins is more of a high cadence engine, churning out a steady power output. I think this makes Bobo Wiggins susceptible to attack over a short space and he either needs someone like Froome to chase any attack or/and needs a few hundred metres to up the output and close the gap.

Wiggins said re the Froome break yesterday that he (Wiggo) had just done a 2km stint on the front of the group and was allowing the lactate to go. Whether he could have responded (without going into the red) we'll never know I guess.

"At that moment I was just concentrating on my effort and keeping in contact because I'd been riding [at the front] for a two and a half [or] two kilometres before that so we came down on that dip and I just had to clear the lactate," Wiggins said at the finish.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-relieved-after-la-toussuire-mountain-finish

 

[martint235]

Another argument in favour of banning radios?

d.

I think even without radios the message would have been sent through. It's a shame we could have had a Froome v TVG showdown as both appeared stronger than their respective leaders.

 

[smutchin]

Maybe: Wiggins looked at the limit though. His face is rarely a grimace and when it is I suspect he's at the limit and it was set in a grimace a few times yesterday. Who knows though. We'll see.

One thing that became apparent yesterday was how much they miss Siutsou. EBH and Rogers both had to do almighty turns on the front, Porte buried himself on the final climb, Froome almost cracked at one point and even Brad had to stick his nose in the wind for a spell, which I'm sure wasn't part of the gameplan.

Today will be a relatively easy stage for them, so they'll get the chance to recover a bit, but they've got two monster stages on successive days in the Pyrenees next week to look forward to.

I'm not writing Cadel off just yet.

d.

 

[thom]

I think the comparison to Indurain might be more apt, he sacrificed himself for Delgado in 90 (and assumed leadership in 91 when Lemond faltered).
He was 27 at the time. I dunno if there is a hint of a supposed agreement between Froome and Wiggins to mirror the Hinault-Lemond one.
It makes a whole lot of sense for Froome to stay at Sky. Wiggins is 32. If he wins this TdF, he probably won't win another due to harder parcours or harder competition (Schlecks and Contador). Froome is a key part of the Sky future. He has learned a lot but I think is still learning and has the very best support at Sky and benefits from Brad too. I don't think he could find a better opportunity at another team right now.

 

[montage]

I wonder how quickly Sivtsov will heal too.

Is it Siutsou or Sivtsov??

I see both regularly