Tour de France 2012 (with SPOILERS)

[Noodley]

me, no

me neither. It is part of cycle racing, it's always been there, it's not new.

 

[Boris Bajic]

Seriously sick of all these crashes. It's a much a lottery as a sporting contest. It's just the same thing as last year. I love cycling but right now I hate it a bit as well. Anyone else feel the same?

I've been slightly surprised by the number and location of the crashes this year, but this is by no means new and certainly doesn't turn it into a lottery.

I recall a DM interview last year (or earlier) when he was saying that the speed of the Peloton is now crazy and relentlessly so. He was predicting great chaos and ouchy pain, which this may be a part of.

However, I do not recall a year without big pile-ups. Right back in my childhood I recall riders saying they liked to be near the front to avoid trouble. I dare say it's been that way since God (or similar) invented the Peloton.

A lottery? No.

If you buy a ticket and are not very bright and say you're only doing it because it supports charridee, that's a lottery.

If there are gentlemen on bicycles whizzing through the French countryside like an angry swarm of EPO bees, that's a sporting event.

There's a subtle distinction.

 

[Andrew_Culture]

Y

C A

FIFY

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

This tour has been a disaster for Cavendish so Wiggins best come up tops; I know he's had bad luck, of three stages he could have won he's involved in a high speed crash the day before yesterday, yesterday he loses out due to the injury, I think, and today another crash. But, in my opinion, SKY have not looked after his best interests and if I was Cav, I'd be longing for the likes of HTC or a lead out like Lotto Belisol.​

​

I really wish Cav hadn't joined Sky to be honest and like I, and so many others thought, you can't concentrate on two jerseys at the same time and he has been let down IMO. I like Wiggins as a rider but SKY...I don't care much for them and that's putting it mildly.​

I agree with everything you said, except as far as I can see Sky is not concentrating on 2 jerseys. They are concentrating on just one. Did you see how the Sky train vanished into the thin air at 2.9km to the finish yesterday, leaving Cav with nobody but Edvald at that point and Edvald finding himself leading Cav and every other team at 1.5km to the finish.

I think Cav has no problem with it (he said as much after the stunning win at stage 2), and given the route this year putting all the chips on Wiggo is the logical step for the team to take especially given taking yellow was Sky's stated objective all along since it was formed. Now everybody except Millar on the Olympics team are from Sky, being part of the team might help Cav take gold, so there is probably some method in the madness this season.

However since Wiggo's contract was a 4 year one starting in December 2009, and iirc Cav's has another two year to run, it is next year that is likely to be super frustrating. But things can change, I suppose.

 

[Monsieur Remings]

I agree with everything you said, except as far as I can see Sky is not concentrating on 2 jerseys. They are concentrating on just one. Did you see how the Sky train vanished into the thin air at 2.9km to the finish yesterday, leaving Cav with nobody but Edvald at that point and Edvald finding himself leading Cav and every other team at 1.5km to the finish.

I think Cav has no problem with it (he said as much after the stunning win at stage 2), and given the route this year putting all the chips on Wiggo is the logical step for the team to take especially given taking yellow was Sky's stated objective all along since it was formed. Now everybody except Millar on the Olympics team are from Sky, being part of the team might help Cav take gold, so there is probably some method in the madness this season.

However since Wiggo's contract was a 4 year one starting in December 2009, and iirc Cav's has another two year to run, it is next year that is likely to be super frustrating. But things can change, I suppose.

Yes, that's my point Record; going back some time ago now when all the speculation first emerged after HTC disbanded about where Cav was going and whether Sky would be a good move for him or not, there seemed to be the general impression at the time that they would try for both, otherwise why would Cav be there? I accept that yellow was always paramount but there were a lot of us, quite rightfully, who were sceptical about it being a good move for the Manxman.

Now we're at the Tour, like you say, they're not concentrating on two jerseys at all and whereas Wiggins has probably never had a better chance of winning, I find it very frustrating that Cav seems to have virtually no support at all when other teams, and other individual riders in the shape of Sagan, have so much damage to do. I think Cav might well change his tune, if not already, regarding not minding but I might be wrong..?

Insofar as the Olympics I don't understand how not practising a lead out train will help Cav either?

I just don't think Sky have thought it through at all, placing too much emphasis on protecting Wiggins at the front of the bunch (the guy is a strong enough rider with enough about him to not need the whole team working for him at the same time all the time) at the expense of giving Cavendish anything at all in the shape of a lead out.

I agree about next year too, if people think that Sky just want Wiggins to win this year. If Wiggins wins this year, they'll put even more effort into him next year.

 

[yello]

"sick of the crashes" .... "lottery" ????

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody wants there to be pile-ups, and today's was a bad one, but it's hardly new.

I don't buy into the 'Cavendish shouldn't have gone to Sky' talk either. Cavendish will be a better cyclist for the move even though I'm sure he's feeling pissed off at the moment. He's a pro, he knew in joining Sky that it was a different set-up and there'd be changes. All of that too is cycling.

I think you've just been used to the good times of previous years and are perhaps taking it for granted, There's always new challenges, new talent that aim to beat him. Cavendish wouldn't expect nor want it to stay the same. He knows equally that he wont always have it his own way. Besides, all of this 'told you so' after they first week is a tad premature. There's a way to go yet and I reckon he'll take another stage or two before the end.

 

[MattHB]

It's completely insane watching this at the moment.

 

[Monsieur Remings]

"sick of the crashes" .... "lottery" ????

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody wants there to be pile-ups, and today's was a bad one, but it's hardly new.

I don't buy into the 'Cavendish shouldn't have gone to Sky' talk either. Cavendish will be a better cyclist for the move even though I'm sure he's feeling pissed off at the moment. He's a pro, he knew in joining Sky that it was a different set-up and there'd be changes. All of that too is cycling.

I think you've just been used to the good times of previous years and are perhaps taking it for granted, There's always new challenges, new talent that aim to beat him. Cavendish wouldn't expect nor want it to stay the same. He knows equally that he wont always have it his own way. Besides, all of this 'told you so' after they first week is a tad premature. There's a way to go yet and I reckon he'll take another stage or two before the end.

It's not so much a case of 'I told you so' as it is about the evidence itself so far...

Then again Stages 12, 15, 18 and the Champs are still there for the taking so let's see; either way, thus far, support for Cav has been utter shite.

If having a one man lead out is meant to be a 'challenge' as you say, then it's one that by the looks of things, ain't going to go his way as often as it should with the proper support in place. So why do it the hard way?

 

[Andy84]

otherwise why would Cav be there?.

I can think of 1.5million reasons (reportedly)

 

[Monsieur Remings]

I can think of 1.5million reasons (reportedly)

Of course Andy, Sky have 'looked after' Cav but that doesn't really detract from my general point that their lead out is pathetic, non-existent, disinterested etc.

I'd have thought that a winner of Paris-Nice, The Criterium Dauphine and the Tour of Romandie (all of which I followed closely) might have done just as well with a few less domestiques to his immediate front, not least to give the current world champion a fighting chance of Green.

 

[Chuffy]

Of course Andy, Sky have 'looked after' Cav but that doesn't really detract from my general point that their lead out is pathetic, non-existent, disinterested etc.

I'd have thought that a winner of Paris-Nice, The Criterium Dauphine and the Tour of Romandie (all of which I followed closely) might have done just as well with a few less domestiques to his immediate front, not least to give the current world champion a fighting chance of Green.

Hmmm, and just how did he win the Dauphine? Perhaps it was precisely because he had a dedicated team, most of whom are on the road in the TdF.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

It's not so much a case of 'I told you so' as it is about the evidence itself so far...

Then again Stages 12, 15, 18 and the Champs are still there for the taking so let's see; either way, thus far, support for Cav has been utter shite.

If having a one man lead out is meant to be a 'challenge' as you say, then it's one that by the looks of things, ain't going to go his way as often as it should with the proper support in place. So why do it the hard way?

+1. The thing is from Cav's standpoint there is only one team where he will get any practice for the Olympics, what choice does he have? If I were him watching the GB train disintegrated well before the finish at World last year, I certainly would have welcomed some practice. Unfortunate for him Orica Greenedge e.g. is certainly single-minded, and they are going to get Cadel. Mmmm the current odds are Goss at 14/1 behind Evald, Hushovd, Gilbert, Boonen, Spartacus, Sagan let alone Cav at 2/1... Who said if you can't beat them join them?

 

[Chuffy]

+1. The thing is from Cav's standpoint there is only one team where he will get any practice for the Olympics, what choice does he have? If I were him watching the GB train disintegrated well before the finish at World last year, I certainly would have welcomed some practice. Unfortunate for him Orica Greenedge e.g. is certainly single-minded, and they are going to get Cadel. Mmmm the current odds are Goss at 14/1 behind Evald, Hushovd, Gilbert, Boonen, Spartacus, Sagan let alone Cav at 2/1... Who said if you can't beat them join them?

What does this mean, in English? Get him in the shower with wet towel? Snipe him from a rooftop? What?

The Tour this year was always going to be about Wiggy and yellow. Cav knew this when he signed up, he was never going to have a train and even taking St Bernie was a concession that left Wiggy a man down. I really don't get all this outrage that Cav and the WC jersey aren't being respected. It has to be either idiots or people with really big blinkers on who think that. Oh and people who are desperate to see Wiggy and Cav going at it with handbags outside the Sky bus. Freaks.

 

[smutchin]

This tour has been a disaster for Cavendish

I suppose it shows you how far we've progressed as a cycling nation when a Brit wins a stage of the TdF and it's considered Not Good Enough.

d.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

What does this mean, in English? Get him in the shower with wet towel? Snipe him from a rooftop? What?

The Tour this year was always going to be about Wiggy and yellow. Cav knew this when he signed up, he was never going to have a train and even taking St Bernie was a concession that left Wiggy a man down. I really don't get all this outrage that Cav and the WC jersey aren't being respected. It has to be either idiots or people with really big blinkers on who think that. Oh and people who are desperate to see Wiggy and Cav going at it with handbags outside the Sky bus. Freaks.

What exactly do you and Noodley not understand? It seems to me your strange questions can only be posed by someone who either did not know Cadel is an Aussie, or that he is going to be in the Aussie squad with 3 of the Greenedge team including Goss.

I am surprised that sporting opinions, discussion and debate in a supposedly friendly forum are degenerating into personal insult and name calling. I might well have blinkers on, but said cold wet towel is probably better placed on your head!