Torn between these 2 bikes, anybody own one?

[MacB]

Please don't let's turn this into another "you want a SS/fixed" thread. OK, they have their advantages in that they are lighter than a geared bike, and they are by their nature simple beasts to maintain, but there is a heavy price to pay in usability, especially if there are any big hills. I don't swallow the "geared bikes are expensive to maintain" line because a chain every year and a cassette every 2 is hardly bank-breaking stuff. A geared bike does offer youi a lot more flexibility. If you are tired or have dropped into the shops on the way home, you don't need to be humping away on the pedals proving that you are Britain's Hardest Man, you want to get your groceries home without busting a gut. Cue gears. Drop a couple and spin, job done, there's the front door.

So yes, if the buyer WANTS a singly, sure, go buy one, but they aren't the universal and only solution that some would claim them to be.

I don't think anyone's pushing SS/fixed just highlighting the options, the problem is that people want an all round bike that's quick, fast and lightweight. As far as gearing goes there's a good argument can be made, if the commute doesn't have significant hills, for no more than a 3 speed. If you have it a bit hillier then a bigger range hub gear or a 7 speed single with something like a 36t and 11 to 30 cassette.

A lot of this is personal preference but I see a lot of people wanting racks, guards, puncture resistance, speed, low maintenance, but don't want a 'heavy' bike, ie anything over about 22lbs/10kg. Unless you spend a fortune then that's not doable without sacrificing the gears.

 

[battered]

I don't think anyone's pushing SS/fixed just highlighting the options... As far as gearing goes there's a good argument can be made, if the commute doesn't have significant hills, for no more than a 3 speed. If you have it a bit hillier then a bigger range hub gear or a 7 speed single.

That's a very good point and one not really addressed by the manufactrers. We do tend to fall into the "one size fits all" trap which was why so many people ended up with MTBs and squillions of gears to go to the shops. I may be lazy but I don't need 22 front/28 rear to get home from the shops on tarmac. A 6 or 7 speed rear and single ring at the front would be a good solution, shed some weight, all gear shifting on one shifter, one less thing to break, lots of advantages.

 

[MacB]

That's a very good point and one not really addressed by the manufactrers. We do tend to fall into the "one size fits all" trap which was why so many people ended up with MTBs and squillions of gears to go to the shops. I may be lazy but I don't need 22 front/28 rear to get home from the shops on tarmac. A 6 or 7 speed rear and single ring at the front would be a good solution, shed some weight, all gear shifting on one shifter, one less thing to break, lots of advantages.

agreed and, to be fair, the manufacturers know how to push our buttons. I was quite dismayed when I discovered that my 9 speed triple didn't actually give me 27 distinct gears...I was very green!! I bought a secondhand Edinburh Courier Race for my middle son, via this forum. That has a 1x8 setup and we've been delighted with it, fast, light and low maintenance. He leaves all his mates for dead on their clunky full sus things.

 

[Wobblers]

The Boardman does make a good commuter - there's someone just down the corridor from me who sometimes commutes in on one. It's surprisingly light - about 10 kg. Mudguards can be bodged to fit, but it's a bit of a faff.

That the Verenti has Sram Rival gears/shifters is a definite plus: it's good. The major downside I can see is the brakes aren't Sram, which is a pity because the Sram Rival brakes on my Cayo are the best rim brakes I've ever had on a bike, by far.

But to be honest, I'd get this:

This has edged the Genesis CdeF for me. Steel frame, drops, discs, hub, can fit guards/rack and it's £799.

http://www.on-one.co...mpetamine-versa





ps I'm not, I repeat not, on On-One commision!!

It'll do everything you want. Avid BB7 brakes are excellent, the alfine hub gear is very easy to live with and gives a reasonable range of gears. Swap the tyres for 32mm marathon plusses and you'll have a pretty bullet proof commuter bike.

I really wish I hadn't looked at this thread. I want! Never mind the Sabbath Silk Route I've been lusting after, I think I've just found n+1... Now if only they bring one out with the new 11 speed alfine hub, it'll be perfect.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I really wish I hadn't looked at this thread. I want! Never mind the Sabbath Silk Route I've been lusting after, I think I've just found n+1... Now if only they bring one out with the new 11 speed alfine hub, it'll be perfect.

Yes the Alfine 11 does look good - the only downside to that will be the extra cost! £300-ish?

 

[MichaelM]

This has edged the Genesis CdeF for me. Steel frame, drops, discs, hub, can fit guards/rack and it's £799.

http://www.on-one.co...mpetamine-versa





ps I'm not, I repeat not, on On-One commision!!

Alfine dynamo front wheels now available as well. If only I had the cash lying about .....

 

[barnesy]

One of the bikes i was looking at is on sale at wiggle as an ex demo here. At a saving of nearly £300 it could be hard to pass up.

Has anybody had an ex demo bike, what wear is likely to be caused? Ive read what it has said about drivetrain wear and possible dirt and damaged paint, but how hardly are these used before being sold as ex demo?

What could be putting me off the hub gear is that they arent as serviceable as a conventional gearing system im used to. And nobody locally stocks them.

How likely are they to go wrong? What maintenance would be required to keep them running smooth?

 

[MacB]

The newer, bigger range, hubgears tend not to be easy to maintain but the theory is that they won't go wrong. Rohloff is the ultimate and, barring having to squirt some oil in every so often, people report 10's of thousands of trouble free miles. The SRAM I-9 is meant to rival Rohloff for reliability, I was unlucky enough to ' allegedly' have the first one in the UK to sieze up. But it had performed faultlessly for about 3k miles and this happened while pushing the bike through deep snow. This involved a return to Germany for new internals, under warranty. The older Shimano 8 speed Nexus was meant to be a bit unreliable but the Alfine 8 a big improvement, the Alfine 11 is meant to be yet another step forward. I believe that you're meant to be able to get them serviced at shimano service centres in the UK, but you'd need to look that up. Sturmey Archer 3 speeds are easy to maintain, if I can learn to strip and rebuild one then anyone can.

Worth noting is that the Rohloff runs in oil, the original Sturmey Archers did, newer hubs have been running with grease yet, for the Alfine 11, Shimano have gone to an oil bath. Hub gear enthusiasts argue about what works better with some brave souls doing their own concoctions. Stripping new hubs, degreasing them, creating an oil environment and putting a tap in. I've found my new style SA 3 speed, with grease, to be fine.

I would say that, if you go for a hub gear, it wouldn't hurt to have a spare rear wheel kicking around, just a cheapo single speed. That way a wheel/hub can be sorted without taking the bike off the road. Depending on your mileage but an annual overhaul is probably a good idea, same as you'd do with a normal hub.

 

[Wobblers]

One of the bikes i was looking at is on sale at wiggle as an ex demo here. At a saving of nearly £300 it could be hard to pass up.

Has anybody had an ex demo bike, what wear is likely to be caused? Ive read what it has said about drivetrain wear and possible dirt and damaged paint, but how hardly are these used before being sold as ex demo?

What could be putting me off the hub gear is that they arent as serviceable as a conventional gearing system im used to. And nobody locally stocks them.

How likely are they to go wrong? What maintenance would be required to keep them running smooth?

Wiggle operate a 28 day no-quibble return policy on their bikes - I would guess that these ex-demo bikes have been returned on that basis. The important point is that Wiggle still offer the normal guarantee. Why not email Wiggle for more details on what is meant by "ex-demo"? It does look like a good deal.

The main benefit of a hub gear is that since all the parts are enclosed and protected, it should be more reliable than derailleurs. There were problems with the Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub due to poor seals that let water in (not good in this country!!). That apparently has been fixed now. I've had no problems with the alfine hub in my Dahon, though I've only had it 6 months. The hub should be serviced every two years, as the grease dries out. I suspect you could probably get away with not doing this.

 

[Wobblers]

Yes the Alfine 11 does look good - the only downside to that will be the extra cost! £300-ish?

That sounds about right (unfortunately!). A bigger problem will be that Versa don't do a 11 speed drop bar shifter yet!

 

[MacB]

That sounds about right (unfortunately!). A bigger problem will be that Versa don't do a 11 speed drop bar shifter yet!

yep, that's the rub, I'd buy one in a shot otherwise

 

[barnesy]

Anybody with an alfine 8 speed, how is it to ride? At the minute i have campag 10 speed veloce with 2 front rings. Would it come as a shock to the system to go to an alfine 8 speed?

Im afraid of the jumps between gears being too high. My commute is quite flat and i should only need one gear but on the weekend i like to tackle the local mountains and i need the smallest gear in my compact 11-25.

I like the ex demo kilmeston as its £170 cheaper than the pompetamine and it already has guards, so thats like £200 more to spend on kit. Im aware though that im going to need to replace chains, cassettes and chainrings more frequently. and also maybe rims. However it doesnt have disc breaks and this is something i would like, they arent 100% necessary but would be more reliable in the wet.

Im finding this one a tough descision

 

[threebikesmcginty]

Anybody with an alfine 8 speed, how is it to ride? At the minute i have campag 10 speed veloce with 2 front rings. Would it come as a shock to the system to go to an alfine 8 speed?

Im afraid of the jumps between gears being too high. My commute is quite flat and i should only need one gear but on the weekend i like to tackle the local mountains and i need the smallest gear in my compact 11-25.

Im finding this one a tough descision

I started a thrilling and well supported thread in 'know how' on roughly the subject. I'd bumbled through the maths of gear inches on my compact 34/50 12/27 and then used Sheldon's gear calculator for the Alfine 8 and adjusted the teeth count, front and rear, to get something to match the low end, this ened up at 20t rear and 42t front - this meant the loss of the 50/12 combination at the top end but I think that's the right way for me to go as I'm not *cough* the fastest rider and I don't like going down hill at ridiculous speeds - thoughts of ones mortality start to kick in for me.

I'm not sure if the extra dosh for the Alfine 11 will be worth it for me but I might just hang on to see if Versa come up with drop bar shifter.

 

[MacB]

The easy way to get an idea of a hub gear range is to use the %age, the main players are:-

Alfine 8 - 307% - approx 1.8kg
I-9 - 340% - about 2kg
Nuvinci N360 CVT - 360% - approx 2.5kg - no gear steps, cvt is continuous variable transmission, in theory you can never be in the wrong gear as a simple twist adjusts it to whatever you like in the range. The jury is out on the effificency of this hub though, but the exploded diagrams are pretty cool.
Alfine 11 - 409% - allegedly 1.6kg
Rohloff - 526% - about 1.8kg

You take the bottom gear, in inches, you'd like to have and then multiply that by the %age, say you want a 30 inch low you get:-

Alfine 8 = 30 to 92.1 inches
I-9 = 30 to 102 inches
Nuvinci = 30 to 108 inches
Alfine 11 = 30 to 122.7 inches
Rohloff = 30 to 157.8 inches

If you want the specific steps then you can look them up via Sheldon, Hubstripping or Hubgear.net. As I run the I-9 I can give detail on that more easily, I've had two setups:-

1. 48x20 giving 35.3 to 120.2 - 35.3 - 40.5 - 47.4 - 55.6 - 65.2 - 76.4 - 89.7 - 105 - 120.2

2. 36x20 giving 26.5 to 90.2 - 26.5 - 30.4 - 35.6 - 41.7 - 48.9 - 57.3 - 67.2 - 78.8 - 90.2

I'm now using the latter but both setups worked fine, I only tend to use 3/4 of the gears anyway. I just realised that the first setup gave me an unlikely to be used top end and a feasibly not low enough bottom end. By comparison the Alfine 11, on a 36x20, would give:-

25.6 - 33.1 - 37.4 - 42.7 - 48.6 - 55.1 - 62.8 - 71.1 - 81 - 91.8 - 104.7

If anyone's really interested in more detail you can PM me with your e-mail address and I can send you the spreadsheet I have with all this stuff in it. The formula are set up so that you can just put in the ratio you want and get results, it also gives you expected speed per RPM etc.

Is that enough detail for you 3BM or do you need more

 

[threebikesmcginty]

The easy way to get an idea of a hub gear range is to use the %age, the main players are:-

Alfine 8 - 307% - approx 1.8kg
I-9 - 340% - about 2kg
Nuvinci N360 CVT - 360% - approx 2.5kg - no gear steps, cvt is continuous variable transmission, in theory you can never be in the wrong gear as a simple twist adjusts it to whatever you like in the range. The jury is out on the effificency of this hub though, but the exploded diagrams are pretty cool.
Alfine 11 - 409% - allegedly 1.6kg
Rohloff - 526% - about 1.8kg

You take the bottom gear, in inches, you'd like to have and then multiply that by the %age, say you want a 30 inch low you get:-

Alfine 8 = 30 to 92.1 inches
I-9 = 30 to 102 inches
Nuvinci = 30 to 108 inches
Alfine 11 = 30 to 122.7 inches
Rohloff = 30 to 157.8 inches

If you want the specific steps then you can look them up via Sheldon, Hubstripping or Hubgear.net. As I run the I-9 I can give detail on that more easily, I've had two setups:-

1. 48x20 giving 35.3 to 120.2 - 35.3 - 40.5 - 47.4 - 55.6 - 65.2 - 76.4 - 89.7 - 105 - 120.2

2. 36x20 giving 26.5 to 90.2 - 26.5 - 30.4 - 35.6 - 41.7 - 48.9 - 57.3 - 67.2 - 78.8 - 90.2

I'm now using the latter but both setups worked fine, I only tend to use 3/4 of the gears anyway. I just realised that the first setup gave me an unlikely to be used top end and a feasibly not low enough bottom end. By comparison the Alfine 11, on a 36x20, would give:-

25.6 - 33.1 - 37.4 - 42.7 - 48.6 - 55.1 - 62.8 - 71.1 - 81 - 91.8 - 104.7

If anyone's really interested in more detail you can PM me with your e-mail address and I can send you the spreadsheet I have with all this stuff in it. The formula are set up so that you can just put in the ratio you want and get results, it also gives you expected speed per RPM etc.

Is that enough detail for you 3BM or do you need more

ta