To Overtake or Not

[Ming the Merciless]

and not neccessarily noting a cyclist approaching at an excessive speed.

Now hang on, cycling at 21, 22 mph etc is not excessive speed.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Now hang on, cycling at 21, 22 mph etc is not excessive speed.

Could be. Depends where you are doing it.

If I wheeled my bike down my front path at 20mph it could be excessive. I'd crash into the bins.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Could be. Depends where you are doing it.

If I wheeled my bike down my front path at 20mph it could be excessive. I'd crash into the bins.

We are talking about on a road obviously, a road with a 20 mph max speed limit for motorised vehicles. A road where it was considered acceptable for motorised vehicles to travel at 30 mph before, and still is in many towns.

 

[Dogtrousers]

We are talking about on a road obviously, a road with a 20 mph max speed limit for motorised vehicles. A road where it was considered acceptable for motorised vehicles to travel at 30 mph before, and still is in many towns.

Depends on the circumstances. If you're doing an overtaking manoeuvre you'll be facing the oncoming traffic. Plus all the other hazards that may exist could result in 20+ mph being considered excessive (for any vehicle).

Or in other circs it would be perfectly ok

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If you're doing an overtaking manoeuvre you'll be facing the oncoming traffic.

Why would you be overtaking into oncoming traffic? I overtake when the overtaking space is clear and will remain clear for the duration of the manoeuvre. You might want to change your behaviour if you are regularly overtaking into oncoming traffic, requiring evasive manoeuvres from one or more parties.

 

[Mike_P]

Now hang on, cycling at 21, 22 mph etc is not excessive speed.

Thats not and quite likely what motorised vehicles would be doing given the inaccuracies in speedos. The one on my car judging by speed recording signs is around 8% faster than actual speed. No doubt there are some the opposite. Off a long decent a cyclist however would be likely to go far faster than that unbraked.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

A lot of the situations of someone blocking a cyclist so they can;t get past

The problem there is the ASL isn't best for "safety".

Behind the first motor vehicle in the queue is best for that for multiple reasons.

Thanks for that - not just me then!

I always find this to be true unless I can get to teh ASL before the lights change and get off promptly when they go amber/green
the problems I find are if the first car behind you decides to accelerate fast - i.e. there is an idiot in play
or the lights change while you are drifting up the inside to get to the ASL

and, of course, you are often supposed to enter the ASL from the left - which is why they have (or are /were supposed to have a dotted white line there as the solid line over the rest of it.

anyway - glad it is not just me - I normally make up my own rule sbased on what works - like taking Primary on roundabouts which I came up witha s a teenager living close to Moreton roundabout on the Wirral! (if people recognise Beryl Road then I'm sure someone will now this one!)

 

[Alex321]

The issue of location is a key thing. I would expect most 20mph zones are in village/urban locations where pedestrians may be crossing the road and not neccessarily noting a cyclist approaching at an excessive speed.

That may well be true now, and in England may remain true for the foreseeable future.

From next month, it will not be true in Wales. Which is what started this thread.

 

[Alex321]

Thats not and quite likely what motorised vehicles would be doing given the inaccuracies in speedos. The one on my car judging by speed recording signs is around 8% faster than actual speed. No doubt there are some the opposite.

There should not be any that are the opposite.

Construction and use regulations require a speedo to read between true speed and (true speed + 10% + 2.4mph). Reading below true speed is illegal.

Most manufacturers set up car speedos to be around 4-5% high, so they are well within those tolerances, and minor changes such as wrong tyre pressure or tyre wear will not take them outside.

 

[nickyboy]

We are talking about on a road obviously, a road with a 20 mph max speed limit for motorised vehicles. A road where it was considered acceptable for motorised vehicles to travel at 30 mph before, and still is in many towns.

If one assumes the 20mph limit is there for good reason then I don't think it is a good idea to be cycling in excess of this. As I mentioned earlier, whilst the limit is for motorised vehicles, if you hit a pedestrian while doing, say, 25mph it isn't going to have a good outcome for either party. Pedestrians will, quite rightly, be attuned to "traffic" at 20mph so something doing in excess of that is not what they are prepared for

Why not just chill and do the 20mph speed limit instead of overtaking cars already doing the speed limit? It's no big deal really and better for pedestrians

 

[Alex321]

If one assumes the 20mph limit is there for good reason then I don't think it is a good idea to be cycling in excess of this. As I mentioned earlier, whilst the limit is for motorised vehicles, if you hit a pedestrian while doing, say, 25mph it isn't going to have a good outcome for either party. Pedestrians will, quite rightly, be attuned to "traffic" at 20mph so something doing in excess of that is not what they are prepared for

Why not just chill and do the 20mph speed limit instead of overtaking cars already doing the speed limit? It's no big deal really and better for pedestrians

Two things here.

First, why assume the limit is there for good reason? Most of them probably are currently. But from a month yesterday (i.e. From 17th September), there will be many in Wales which really aren't. And those are the ones this thread was started about.

But second, if we are going to assume the 20mph is there for good reason, then shouldn't we also assume that it not applying to cyclists is for good reason?

I don't anticipate there being many situations, even with the new limits, where I would be likely to overtake a car doing 20. But I can think of a couple of current 30 limits I ride reasonably often where I usually exceed the 30. If those get changed to 20, and cars abide by that (unlikely), then I probably would overtake them.

 

[nickyboy]

Two things here.

First, why assume the limit is there for good reason? Most of them probably are currently. But from a month yesterday (i.e. From 17th September), there will be many in Wales which really aren't. And those are the ones this thread was started about.

But second, if we are going to assume the 20mph is there for good reason, then shouldn't we also assume that it not applying to cyclists is for good reason?

I don't anticipate there being many situations, even with the new limits, where I would be likely to overtake a car doing 20. But I can think of a couple of current 30 limits I ride reasonably often where I usually exceed the 30. If those get changed to 20, and cars abide by that (unlikely), then I probably would overtake them.

It not applying to cyclists is because historically there was no way for a cyclist to know what speed they were doing. Of course that has changed and many (but not all) cyclists have devices that measure speed, including you. To reiterate my comment, I happily overtake other road users if, by doing so, I don't exceed the speed limit and it's safe to do so. But if I had to exceed the limit there is no way I would do it.

Cyclists always rightly complain about car drivers overtaking them unsafely "just to gain a few seconds". Overtaking a car whilst exceeding the speed limit is, prima facie, unsafe so I'm not bothered about a few seconds and will happily remain behind a car doing 20 in a 20 zone

 

[DaveReading]

Cyclists always rightly complain about car drivers overtaking them unsafely "just to gain a few seconds". Overtaking a car whilst exceeding the speed limit is, prima facie, unsafe

As well as doing nothing for drivers' perception of cyclists.

 

[Mr Celine]

It not applying to cyclists is because historically there was no way for a cyclist to know what speed they were doing.

Citation needed.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Citation needed.

Here you go: The Internet