Tips to Make Yourself Visible

[Blue Hills]

Pedal reflectors in my opinion are the single most "ooooo..... that's a bike" thing you can have on your bike in the dark.
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Ah, thanks for that. I got some shimano ones in an end of line sale for a pound or two and fitted them to a pair of touring pedals. Should have bought a couple more pairs as the full price is barmy.

Spose its the distinctive up and down, so the alternative is a flashing ankle strap.

 

[Spinney]

Ah, thanks for that. I got some shimano ones in an end of line sale for a pound or two and fitted them to a pair of touring pedals. Should have bought a couple more pairs as the full price is barmy.

Spose its the distinctive up and down, so the alternative is a flashing ankle strap.

Yes, when driving at night, it's always been the moving bits that attract my attention first to a cyclist ahead, especially on a road with other cars, where a red rear light can sometimes get lost among the other tail lights.

 

[smutchin]

The only evidence I can offer to support this is in my 40+ years of working I never encountered a company which spent money for the sake of it.

 

[mjr]

[QUOTE 5057227, member: 9609"]I would disagree with this too, I have found vehicles coming out of the sun with their lights on are easier to spot.

I'm beginning to wonder if there is something odd about my eyes. I also find reflective clothing much easier to see whilst driving after dark, and I find bright reds and space lemon clothing make cyclists very obvious during the day.

It would be very interesting to know what other people actual see, this thread is making me wonder.[/QUOTE]
My eyes are supersensitive to contrast, so I find car headlights unhelpful in detecting cars against low sun and chartreuse yellow difficult to see against typical countryside greens and yellows, but I can see the merest hint of a reflective surface from silly distances at night. That's useful for reading road signs when driving but no help with cyclists because I pass even the unlit ones wide. If anything, it's sometimes slightly distracting from things nearer to me that I need to deal with first.

I think the problem is with drivers who don't look properly and this doesn't help enough, so it's basically a no change for safety, so a distraction from policies more likely to help, such as education, policing and infrastructure changes.

 

[theclaud]

Mod note: can we just agree to be polite from this point on? Rather than going back to look at who said what, or continuing to use perjorative terms like 'Space Lemon' in place of Hi-vis? And 'wasting' would do perfectly well to describe spending money when there is no demonstrated benefit for cyclists.

I honestly don't know how posts like this pass the mirror test. Are you on a personal mission to blandify every discussion? There's a history to the term Space Lemon, which was coined by Ravenbait (formerly OTP) in the context of a very eloquent article about the risks to vulnerable road users of the (then burgeoning) hi-viz culture. What has happened since (crocodiles of schoolchildren in luminous custard tabards, anyone?) bears out her observations about the direction in which are heading. The term isn't pejorative towards any person - it is quite deliberately emphasising the negative (and absurd) aspects of something that is accepted unquestioningly by many. Stop micro-managing everyone's language. It's patronising and insulting, and damaging to healthy conversation.

 

[Spinney]

Not universally, or at least not by anything else than the street lights, especially when there aren't pavements. I even know streets with black lampposts in the middle of the road with no kerbs or anything around them, replaced ten or fifteen years ago like for like. Not without their critics, of course, but it's a conservation area and so on, so they've survived the hi vis zealots so far.


Bikes - bikes have lights that have to meet certain standards, and so should not need hi vis colouring.

Same reservation about low sun, though.

OK, I stand corrected - I don't think I've encountered lamp-posts like the ones you describe.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I honestly don't know how posts like this pass the mirror test. Are you on a personal mission to blandify every discussion? There's a history to the term Space Lemon, which was coined by Ravenbait (formerly OTP) in the context of a very eloquent article about the risks to vulnerable road users of the (then burgeoning) hi-viz culture. What has happened since (crocodiles of schoolchildren in luminous custard tabards, anyone?) bears out her observations about the direction in which are heading. The term isn't pejorative towards any person - it is quite deliberately emphasising the negative (and absurd) aspects of something that is accepted unquestioningly by many. Stop micro-managing everyone's language. It's patronising and insulting, and damaging to healthy conversation.

My running club make the wearing of a Space Lemon tabard mandatory for taking part in night runs. I don't take part in their night runs.

The problem in our motor-centric culture is that nearly everyone drives. And nearly EVERYONE who drives THINKS LIKE A DRIVER nearly ALL THE TIME, i.e. it is other more vulnerable road users' responsibility to make themselves more visible to me, NOT it is my task, as a driver, to not drive like an eejit.

That cyclists are suggesting in a cycling forum that other cyclists would be well advised to wear PPE, and, furthermore, conclude that the wearing of such PPE will make them significantly safer aka "stack the odds in their favour" is understandable given our motor-centricity. But nonetheless deplorable.

I saw space lemon twice in Scandi. both times on a Brit. Fair bit more cycling in Scandi than in UK.

 

[mjr]

OK, I stand corrected - I don't think I've encountered lamp-posts like the ones you describe.

New installations are mostly as you describe, but unmarked lights and other objects in the carriageway aren't that unusual in low motor traffic streets.

Special mention for the street lights that I think are on Headington Hill in Oxford, painted dark green IIRC and planted in the substandardly narrow cycle lanes on both sides of a much busier road than others I know with lights in the carriageway.

 

[Spinney]

There's a history to the term Space Lemon, which was coined by Ravenbait (formerly OTP) in the context of a very eloquent article about the risks to vulnerable road users of the (then burgeoning) hi-viz culture. What has happened since (crocodiles of schoolchildren in luminous custard tabards, anyone?) bears out her observations about the direction in which are heading. The term isn't pejorative towards any person - it is quite deliberately emphasising the negative (and absurd) aspects of something that is accepted unquestioningly by many.

Thanks for the info - a bit of background I was clearly unaware of. Are there any links to the articles you refer to? I have had a quick search on CC, but the search function only turns up recent uses of the term.

 

[Ajax Bay]

It's raining (down here in Devon) otherwise I would be out cycling. On the plus side the forecast is good (sunny if a bit 'fresh') for tomorrow and Wednesday.

I disagree with the view one needs to prove hi viz is effective for cyclists. There may or may not be statistical data to prove hi viz is effective. The huge amount used in industry would suggest there is a benefit. The only evidence I can offer to support this is in my 40+ years of working I never encountered a company which spent money for the sake of it. For me this is sufficient

Do you disagree with the view that one needs to prove hi viz is not effective for cyclists?
Don't you think that if there were data to prove hi viz is effective for cyclists that this would be easy to find? Think of the commercial benefit to the hi-viz industry.
I'd suggest that the reason why industry uses hi-viz clothing is not for 'operational' reasons but to mitigate the risk/effect of litigation, rather than because its use has proved to offer a 'real' benefit (reduction of accidents). This is the basis of their 'business case': they are not spending money "for the sake of it". In the Risk Management 'bow-tie' this is dealing with the consequence of the 'event' rather than minimising the risk of such an event happening - a measure of interest to a company concerned with the effect on reputation (however unfounded) and litigation. The 'consequence' issue is the reason (warning - off topic - please do not pursue - for illustration only) I wear a h****t: because I don't want my BH and others to say/think (after the event) 'if only'?
In an industrial setting where items may fall from height (eg oil rigs, refineries ime) or where height in passages is restricted it makes sense to mandate the use of a hard hat: good research has shown that the protection such a head cover offers reduces the damage to the worker wearing it.

 

[Ajax Bay]

chartreuse yellow

luminous custard

 

[Johnno260]

People don’t even notice me while driving my wife’s S-Max with the DRL’s and lights up.

On the bike I have an Endura hi vis jacket with a light in the butt, 2 rear lights, my UT800 in the front and led Snap on wrist lights and the obnoxious still miss me.

 

[Ajax Bay]

On the bike I have an Endura hi vis jacket with a light in the butt, 2 rear lights, my UT800 in the front and led Snap on wrist lights and the obnoxious still miss me.

Why? What about reflective ankle straps?

 

[Apollonius]

I am at risk of repeating myself, but the key issue in being seen is awareness. This is massively the responsibility of operators of powered vehicles, or at least used to be. I recall a public safety advert (or I think I do - getting old!) that showed a "good driver" noticing a kid's feet behind a parked car and expecting that child to run into the road. That sort of notion of responsibility seems to have gone - replaced by a Clarksonist sense of entitlement to tear about at high speed all the time and mow down whatever is in the way.
Nevertheless, a rider needs awareness too. Part of a regular ride I do involves a stretch of single-carriageway high-speed road (which I hate, but can't avoid). Early in the morning, with low sun, a rider is almost invisible in the deep shadow of the high hedge. Thus, I ride on the lit part of the road - yes, the middle - moving over only when I am sure the overtaking vehicle has seen me. Surprisingly, I rarely get hooted for this, but at least a hoot means I have been seen.
One last thought about colours. Industrial high-viz is designed to stand out in an urban, man-made environment. Most of the background to my personal riding (my choice) is nature or agriculture. Yellow clothing does not work for me when I am riding past oilseed rape, or even spring green leaves. For this reason, I mostly wear black and white. It might be interesting to consider the journey made by the RAF when choosing a colour to make their training aircraft as visible as possible in the natural environment. They have moved from yellow (1930s and 40s) to orange 1950s and 60s, and now use black.

 

[theclaud]

Thanks for the info - a bit of background I was clearly unaware of. Are there any links to the articles you refer to? I have had a quick search on CC, but the search function only turns up recent uses of the term.

A rather good argument against the Year Zero approach to textual history that has prevailed for a while now. Here's a perceptive post which employs the term.