tips on group riding technique and peletons wanted

[bonj2]

not sure what sort of a response i'll get to this... and i'm not sure if this is the right forum as it seems mainly to be about stuff that's on telly but anyway here goes...
i'm quite a fast rider but have very little experience of group riding. On the recent northern rock cyclone i found i was making two main mistakes with group riding:

one was 'making a break', either purposefully or accidentally: a couple of times i thought i might just find another peleton further ahead and latch onto that one, so i deliberately did it, but that never happens - what happened instead is that the one i'd got in front of caught up again and as i'd unwittingly used more energy in staying ahead I had to work a bit harder to keep up with the one that had just overtook again (or was TRYING to overtake - see next paragraph...)
But on the climbs my natural pace seemed to be faster than the peleton so i naturally moved to the front of it - so what's some good tips for then adopting a position at about number 2, 3, or 4 in that peleton, i.e. at the front bit of it but not right at the front?

also possibly linked to the above, but i often found myself in the following position: (me being the blue)

where a peleton is trying to overtake, but it's not actually going any faster than I am - I'm effectively "boxed in"!
this situation possibly arose when i'd got a bit too far in front of a peleton on a plateau section at the top of a hill, it had caught up and was trying to overtake, but was only going faster previously due to it being a group...
so when a peleton starts to overtake, what's the best way of being effectively enveloped by it and not getting boxed in by it...
I didn't like getting boxed in by it partly because if half of it tires and half of it doesn't, i want to be able to stay with the front half, but mainly because i need space on the road to be able to negotiate hazards, bends etc. safely.

The above said i think i gained a lot of confidence and experience of group riding on that ride, which is the main reasons i like sportives. Much better than the only other two sportives i've done in that i managed to stay on the back of a fairly fast peleton for most of it which seemed to be the best way to ride.

 

[Bigtwin]

so when a peleton starts to overtake, what's the best way of being effectively enveloped by it and not getting boxed in by it...

Speed and elbows. And a really manic grin can help too.

 

[iLB]

when your in the blue position you can either get spat out the back and enjoy a real easy ride drafting for a while

or you can sort of edge across after a rider has passed you, whilst making eye contact with the rider behind to show you want 'in' , and if they have any sense they'll let you back in the line rather than crashing into you

as regards braking away from the main group, this is best done with at least one if not two more riders, or else as you have found you can't stay away for long. failing this sit on the front for a while, and if someone else then overtakes you- you can go off up the road with them

 

[Noodley]

Speak to people in the group, and watch what's happening...and don't try to go off on your own. Sit in the group, you will benefit in the long term rather than wasting energy.

 

[Steve Austin]

There is a big difference between riding in a group and racing with a group. It seems from what you have written that you are mixing up racing, with riding in a group.

Just find a decent chaingang and ride more. you'll soon pick it up

 

[bonj2]

or you can sort of edge across after a rider has passed you, whilst making eye contact with the rider behind to show you want 'in' , and if they have any sense they'll let you back in the line rather than crashing into you

yeah this is what i was doing pretty much. just wondered if there were any better/'recognised' ways of doing it.

 

[Steve Austin]

yes there is. stop racing in a group that isn't racing.

sportive group riding isn't all about elbows and 'edging' into other riders. Something else you should consider, is that a fair few of the other riders in sportives will have never ridden with any other cyclist. So holding wheels, picking lines becomes a lottery and a game of risk. There are always crashes in sportives, as you get your weekend warrior with his elbows flying, swerving all over the place, not holding wheels, lurching backwards and forwards on every slope, swinging out on corners. Dangerous place to be riding in a sportive.

There is a world of difference between riding in a group in a sportive and riding with a group that is racing. Find a local chaingang and go riding. you will leanr more in one ride than riding a 100 sportives.

 

[bonj2]

yes there is. stop racing in a group that isn't racing.

sportive group riding isn't all about elbows and 'edging' into other riders. Something else you should consider, is that a fair few of the other riders in sportives will have never ridden with any other cyclist. So holding wheels, picking lines becomes a lottery and a game of risk. There are always crashes in sportives, as you get your weekend warrior with his elbows flying, swerving all over the place, not holding wheels, lurching backwards and forwards on every slope, swinging out on corners. Dangerous place to be riding in a sportive.

There is a world of difference between riding in a group in a sportive and riding with a group that is racing. Find a local chaingang and go riding. you will leanr more in one ride than riding a 100 sportives.

Thanks for the advice Steve. I'm not trying to race, I'm just aiming to build my experience of riding in a group in sportives - as I said I may have been mistaken to post this in the 'racing' forum but it was the best fit for the post, albeit not necessarily a perfect fit.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

is there a decent cycling club near you that has a club run at weekend but also races? you'll get all the practice and advice you need.

 

[jimboalee]

In the situation you describe, and with lttle experience, the best policy you can take is to drop back and get on the back.
From there you can watch and learn how the group exchange the lead. You will hear the calls. You will see the hand signals and signs.

You will also be riding in the draft of the whole group, using half power for the speed.

The wrong thing to do is get to the front.

Let the group control the speed, even on an incline and watch and listen for the gear changes.

If you know there will be a group, don't wear your best jersey or shorts. Appear to be a novice. Then you will get some forgiveness if you mess up ( clash wheels ).

Although you are at the very back, keep looking round and shout 'Car' when a vehicle approaches.
You will soon be told it is "Car UP!" when a vehicle appraoches from the rear.
That shows you are a newbie.

Be humble.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

and don't do what someone i know did, and turn up on a kuota kharma for the first club run. he should have gone, jimbolee style, on his sarason road bike and not looked like a newb on a posh bike.

they lead him a right merry (and fast) dance, by the sound of it…

 

[bonj2]

and don't do what someone i know did, and turn up on a kuota kharma for the first club run. he should have gone, jimbolee style, on his sarason road bike and not looked like a newb on a posh bike.

they lead him a right merry (and fast) dance, by the sound of it…

that's what puts me off joining a club to be honest.
I haven't got that much time to go on club runs, but i'd be more inclined to make time if i knew they were friendly. Maybe i will make time to try out a nearby club run.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

that's what puts me off joining a club to be honest.
I haven't got that much time to go on club runs, but i'd be more inclined to make time if i knew they were friendly. Maybe i will make time to try out a nearby club run.

my club (macclesfield wheelers) is a friendly one. the one my work colleague went out with was another one. maybe you could do a shout in the café for a friendly s yorks club.

 

[bonj2]

my club (macclesfield wheelers) is a friendly one. the one my work colleague went out with was another one. maybe you could do a shout in the café for a friendly s yorks club.

could do, i dont' live in sheffield now though.

 

[SimonC]

Dont get too hung up on knowing all the right phrases and hand gestures - its mainly shouting car if a car is coming, pointing at bad pot holes, and shouting "out" if somethings (car/pothole) on the inside.

Nobody is going to care less whether you shout car up or car down in a road race, main thing is to ride safely, not slowing down when getting out of saddle and holding your line, and enjoy it, whether race or sportive.