Tiagra 4700 v 105 5800 and bike sales

[mstrmind5]

Any noticeable difference for non-sportive users?
How does 4700 Tiagra compare with older 4600 Tiagra?

Still browsing for a possible new road bike for around £500-£600. Best fit seemed to be the Giant Defy 2 2015 for £520. Now stumbled upon two 2016 Wiggle bikes - Verenti Technique Tiagra (~£550) or the 105 version (~£640). Both largely use the latest versions of their repective groupsets (minus brake calipers). I've read the review of the Tiagra here http://road.cc/content/review/188558-verenti-technique-tiagra-road-bike
Any experience of these bikes, brand and Wiggle?

Ideally I would like a Cannondale disc version, but out of my budget presently.

Am I correct in thinking that current year bikes go on sale about late August/September? So, too long to wait for this to come around?

Thanks.

 

[Joffey]

No experience of 4700 Tiagra but I have had 5700 105 and 5800 105. I presume 4700 is very similar to 5700 as in they are both 10 speed and probably use very similar components. The difference between 5700 and 5800 is big. The shifting is much smoother and the front mech is much easier to shift from the small to the big ring. If you have to go for a bike based upon groupset I would really advise you to go for 5800 105. It is outstanding.

 

[outlash]

Might be worth waiting another couple of months when next years' paint jobs come in to see how much more you can get for your budget. Discs might not be off the menu .

The difference between 5700 and 5800 is big. The shifting is much smoother and the front mech is much easier to shift from the small to the big ring.

Set either of those groupsets up properly and there's no difference between the two in terms of shifting (both very smooth FWIW). General differences between 105 & Tiagra are pretty small IME.

 

[Joffey]

I had both set up properly and still could tell the difference. The front mech on 5800 was a total redesign dripped down from Ultegra compared to the old 5700. Each to their own though.

 

[mark st1]

I would really advise you to go for 5800 105. It is outstanding.

+1 cracking bit of kit.

 

[vickster]

What's riding sportives or not got to do with anything when looking at bike components?

If happy to buy online, and you hunt around, you may well find 2015 bikes reduced rather than waiting for the 2016s to drop. On the Cannondale disc front, no experience, but I'm sure I've read the brakes aren't very good

If you can push your budget you can have the highly regarded London road with discs, rack mounts, clearance for proper mudguards

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNRIV/planet-x-london-road-sram-rival-11-bike
Interest free credit available

£100 less with Apex but it's certainly worth the extra for Rival if you can

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNRDAPEX/planet-x-london-road-sram-apex-bike

Are you commuting in all weathers hence the need for discs?

If you do go for a wiggle bike, don't forge Quidco. Same for Planet X

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Any noticeable difference for non-sportive users?

Slightly puzzled by this. For everything else there's the Planet X London Road

 

[Wafer]

I've got the 10 speed 105 on one bike and new tiagra on another, not a lot of difference to me.
Seen various views on new 105 generally saying it's not a lot different, just the extra gear, not tried it though.

 

[jefmcg]

4700 brifters have the cables routed internally, so you don't have ugly washing lines in between the drops

 

[doog]

Upgraded a Tiagra 4600 with 105 5700 and its like chalk and cheese...however some will say that if Tiagra is set up correctly you'll hardly notice the difference...I do however , its more ' clumpy.'

Still ride with Tiagra on the CX, 105 on the road bikes (5700 and 5800 and cant really tell the difference )... However for the price differential I'd go with 105 over Tiagra..

Worth looking at Pauls cycles http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/ they discount older models heavily and their bikes come very well made up..

 

[bondirob]

I've got a Defy 3 with Sora
You won't go wrong with a Defy
If go for the best frame for the money you can upgrade later if you want.
There's not a massive difference between Sora and 105 other than 105 shifts a bit nicer.

 

[the snail]

Any noticeable difference for non-sportive users?
How does 4700 Tiagra compare with older 4600 Tiagra?

They've changed the pull ratio on the shifters for better/more reliable shifting with cables under the bar tape, same as new 105/ultegra. Also changed the rather ugly looking chainring. Nice to see they've put br650 brakes on, which are very good quality - a lot nicer than cheapo tektro that you often see on cheaper bikes. Full carbon fork too. Not too shabby at all for the dosh.

 

[EasyPeez]

On the Cannondale disc front, no experience, but I'm sure I've read the brakes aren't very good

This is correct, if my mate's Promax brakes on his disc Synapse is anything to go by - they're bobbins. Look out for something with TRP Spyres if going for cable discs. Some will recommend Avid BB7 too, I've never tried those.

Upgraded a Tiagra 4600 with 105 5700 and its like chalk and cheese

I've done exactly the same (though I've upgraded shifters and cassette only) and I can barely tell a difference. The shifters need a slightly lighter touch, that's it. Both very smooth and reliable IME.
Tiagra 4600 had exposed cables and ugly, bulky plastic ends, with more cramped hoods, so 105 is worth the extra over Tiagra 4600 for me, for riding comfort and aesthetic reasons. But as far as I can tell the 4700 Tiagra do away with all these flaws so if it's just a question of shifting performance I doubt you'll notice a difference.

 

[mstrmind5]

This is correct, if my mate's Promax brakes on his disc Synapse is anything to go by - they're bobbins. Look out for something with TRP Spyres if going for cable discs. Some will recommend Avid BB7 too, I've never tried those.

So would something like the Verenti Substance 105 be worth considering? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/verenti-substance-105-2016/

And would the price difference, ~£110, to the Verenti Technique 105 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/verenti-technique-105-2016/ make it a worthwhile purchase?

 

[EasyPeez]

So would something like the Verenti Substance 105 be worth considering? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/verenti-substance-105-2016/

And would the price difference, ~£110, to the Verenti Technique 105 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/verenti-technique-105-2016/ make it a worthwhile purchase?

Re: Verenti bikes specifically, I'm afraid I can't help as I've never seen, much less ridden one.

Re: the disc brakes and the £110 extra cost of the Technique - you do realise that those are completely different bikes? One is made of aluminium with carbon forks, the other steel frame and forks, different geometries, different wheel sets etc. So if weighing up those two as options there's lots more to consider than just the type of brakes they have.
Speaking of weighing, the Technique is a pretty heavy bike - almost 2.5kg heavier than the Substance. Which might be a factor if you will be climbing a lot of hills or lugging the bike up stairs/onto trains etc. I suspect a lot of this weight must be down to the unbranded steel frame.

Both look ok value based on the spec, but personally if spending £650-750 I would be looking elsewhere, with a preference to get a 2015 model with a branded frame (and better aesthetics) in the sales, even if it meant dropping a groupset. But then it's not me buying, it's you!

One thing I would stress - and I know it's a said time and again on here - but if you're not sure what you want, especially in terms of geometry (i.e the size of the different parts of the frame and hence how the bike will fit you) it's a big gamble to buy online. I'd suggest a tour of all your LBSs and some test rides to at least nail down the kind of geometry you prefer.

Andy