This is a helmet debate

[Mad at urage]

So you feel that driving a car in a race is the same risk as general motoring. Well we will have to disagree

As someone already said, driving a car on public roads is the biggest source of serious head injuries in the UK.

I really dont know why you and others wont accept i have a different view. People appear to be getting worked up that somebody else may have a different opinion to them.

I am able to express my opinion and thoughts without getting uptight about somebody elses views, thats your or their right. It does not in any way change my view, as the points you and others have made do not convince me not wearing a helmet is safer than wearing one

You started the thread calling for a helmet debate! Now you get upset because people are putting opinions that differ from yours .

 

[Smokin Joe]

Do you shave your legs, too, numbnuts?

And take EPO, Testoterone, steroids and amphetamines?

 

[david k]

As someone already said, driving a car on public roads is the biggest source of serious head injuries in the UK.

You started the thread calling for a helmet debate! Now you get upset because people are putting opinions that differ from yours .

lol, ive stated numerous times that i respect your opinions, i may think they are wrong but i respect they are yours. Im not getting upset, lmao, i simply pointed out that yopu are upset at me for not being turned by your arguments.
You dont like the fact that your posts dont make me change my mind. you seem upset you cannot pursaude me otherwise

i can accept your point of view and opinion although i disagree. You cannot bring yourself to even consider accepting i have a different opinion.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Going back to the OP's original question on professionals and helmets, CW printed pictures of the pro teams riding through central London traffic in the days before the '07 TdF and most of the riders were bare headed. When pictures from pre-season training camps appear the result is the same, the exception being the Brit registered Sky outfit where they all wear helmets.

 

[jig-sore]

i know... i know...

its to give them somewhere to keep their sunglasses

 

[ufkacbln]

incomplete analysis, maybe not, a race is by its mere nature more risky than a general car user. If you can honestly say driving a car on a public road has the same risks as driving a car in a race then there is little point you continuing to try to understand my views.

Can you honestly say riding a cycle on a public road has the same risks as riding a cycle in a race - unless you can then the argument is sheer hypocrisy, and there is little point continuing to try to understand my views

 

[ufkacbln]

Note that the simple request is still proving too difficult to answer....

When as a racing body UCI recommends helmets - we are supposed to unquestioningly accept their advice, yet when the RAC / ACU in the same capacity offers the same advice it is open to debate and suddenly becomes silly!

What a weird and hypocritical position to take!

 

[Paco de Bango]

So you feel that driving a car in a race is the same risk as general motoring. Well we will have to disagree

I really dont know why you and others wont accept i have a different view. People appear to be getting worked up that somebody else may have a different opinion to them.

I am able to express my opinion and thoughts without getting uptight about somebody elses views, thats your or their right. It does not in any way change my view, as the points you and others have made do not convince me not wearing a helmet is safer than wearing one

This thread is turning into a debate about how upset people are getting!

Just to reiterate my point (I'm not upset), I earlier said that casual drivers don't wear helmets but racing drivers do wear helmets because the risks casual drivers take are nothing like the risk racing drivers take.
I also said this was directly comparable to cyclists, in that casual cyclists need not wear a helmet because the risks casual cyclists take are nothing like the risk racing cyclists take.

I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't wear a helmet, just that the comparison is like for like.
Thats all i disagree on. If you want to wear a helmet then thats fine by me, but i won't when I'm popping to the shop, just as i won't when i'm in the car.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

rally car drivers drive on roads and they wear helmets.

'casual' road cars are capable of travelling at pretty much the same speed as rally cars.

it's exactly the same principle not matter how sarcastic you get.

Also, cycles count as other vehicles so the risk of getting hit by another vehicle is not more likely for a casual cyclist, it's more likely for the racing cyclist as they will be deliberately riding as close as possible to other vehicles in the race.

Rally crews don't wear helmets on road sections.

 

[snailracer]

Agreed, though it IS about liability/insurance as per Sportives etc. which sometimes insist on helmet wearing...

While the "wisdom" of the UCI is dubious, one would think that insurance companies base their terms and conditions on statistical facts. Do they know something the general cycling population don't?

...
Again, AFAIK, there is no evidence to suggest that helmet wearing has made any impact other than to discourage people cycling - and that's a bad thing.

It might be true that helmet compulsion will reduce the number of cyclists enough to result in reduced safety. However, as insurance companies insure individuals and not the cycling population as a whole, no conclusion about helmet compulsion laws can be drawn from helmet conditions on insurance policies IMO.

 

[Baker]

I'm quite surprised how strong peoples feelings are on helmets.

As well as cycling I also snowboard, most years I've managed 4+ weeks on the slopes and have been lucky enough to spend quite a bit of time on N.America. ( where admittedly they are more safety conscious then the french or italians for example)

When I started about 12 years ago virtually no-one worn helmets on the slopes (both skiers and snowboarders).

About 5 years ago it was probably the majority that did.

Now it seems to me the only people that don't wear them are the occasional first timer and (mostly) 'long time skiers or boarders' who don't see the need to start something they have never done. I would guess the non-wearers make up less than 5% of the total people on the slopes.

Early on I remember there were also (as I have heard in the cycling community) arguments about weight of the helmet, restricted vision / hearing etc as objections to wearing them. These quite quickly disappeared and it became the norm.

In the most part helmets are not compulsory in snow-sports, most snow schools require them and they are mandatory in the highest level terrain parks for obvious reasons.

Of course, you can argue till the cows come home the pro's and con's of making a comparison between helmet wearing in the two sports.

For me it is a reasonably valid comparison because of these common denominators:

• its not a legal requirement to wear helmets in either cycling or snowsports
• neither have produced conclusive, independent research the proves the exact benefit
• both sports are good 'family' activities and therefore the requirement to 'set a good example' to the kids is probably equal

Which leads to me wonder, what has happened differently in these two sports communities that has resulted in such different sets of attitudes / behaviours.

In case you are wondering, and if it is important to you, I do wear a helmet for both sports.

In the case of snowboarding the turning point was hearing the description of a guy (in my girlfriends ski class) being helicoptered off the mountain in the 'golden hour' after being knocked un-conscious. Helmets were not compulsory in those days and he was not wearing one. We heard afterwards that he spent a month in hospital and the medical bills were many 000's of $ ( + the cost of the helicopter)

In the case of cycling, I can't remember exactly when I started wearing one but it was pre 1999 for certain.

FWIW, I'm glad its a habit I have. A short while ago I had a nasty tumble and whacked my head really hard during a snowboarding trip. Long story short - two lots of un-consciousness and a fair amount of vomiting, plus a period in the emergency room on drips and heart monitors, which was not a good experience. The following two months of part time working hours, no alcohol and shocking short term memory problems were not a bundle of laughs either.

Thankfully SWMBO is quite tolerate and patient when it comes to patching me up after various mishaps.

Who knows if it might have been worse with-out a helmet, the important thing is I walked away (just) and it's had no long term impact.

PS If you choose not to wear one, its fine by me, its your choice, which I genuinely hope does not negatively impact you at any point.

 

[The Jayler]

I too snowboard and wear a helmet for both. I have cracked my head probably a dozen times while on the snow over the past 5 years and been gratefull for the marks being on my lid and not my bonce.

I have been cycling for about 20 years on and off road and never fallen off and hit my head. I mainly wear my lid to keep the uninformed missus happy but i havn't had the need for it yet.

Given the recent pro that died, was it from banhing his head? Did the helmet help?
I'd like to know where the scaremongering insurance companies got their stats from.

Right, off to Wiggle as i feel the need to spend £100 on a new lid. Giro Ionos you recon?

 

[ufkacbln]

Giro Ionos you recon?

Not SNELL certified

 

[snorri]

For me it is a reasonably valid comparison because of these common denominators:

I don't think your comparison is valid at all, you seem to see cycling as a sport whereas many of us see it simply as a mode of transport with no competitive element whatsoever.

 

[MacB]

I don't think your comparison is valid at all, you seem to see cycling as a sport whereas many of us see it simply as a mode of transport with no competitive element whatsoever.

Exactly, you'd need to compare cycling with something like cross country skiing to get a more reasonable comparison. In the same way that the different forms of cycling can be viewed, I would wear a cycle helmet for MTBing but not for commuting, going to the shops, social riding, etc. I suspect I'd wear a helmet for snowboarding but that I'm also unlikely ever to snowboard to work or the shops.