Thesis thoughts

[Night Train]

I was thinking (dreaming) about a new thesis idea last night and I thought about communities or towns that have no motorised transport.

I thought about the way the old railway stations worked. The locals would walk, ride or be carried to the station, as would local goods, and they would be transferred on to a train. People and stuff on the train would be dispersed into the community by foot, horseback or carriage.

Could something similar happen with a modern small town?
If there were various terminals where people and goods within the town were transported by human power and then changed at the terminus on to motorised road and rail transport for the long haul to the next town would it work?
Incoming people and goods could be dispersed on human power.

I was thinking of private cycles, HPV, hire bikes, rickshaws, load carrying bikes, etc doing the running back and forth between terminus and various places in the town while the motorways and railways carried mass people and goods transport.

Emergency service vehicles would be exempted but any other motor vehicle in the town would have to be non emission generated electric drive, ie wind or solar but not biofuel.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I would need to turn it into a thesis question that gave me some original research and an output that was meaningful addressing the benefits and barriers.

 

[Arch]

In theory, yes, it could work.

The problem I suspect, would be the addition of actual people into the system.

I think the size of such a town would be very limited, based on the average person's idea of how far one can travel under one's own power. WE know you can ride two or three or four miles, but a lot of people regard it as impossible.

The other thing that I wonder about is goods transport, Yes, you can distribute by human power up to a point (we have a great courier service doing that in York), but when you are talking about whole pallets to shops, etc it gets harder. It can be done, but it means a town standing alone within a system, if you see what I mean. The hubs would have to do a lot of unpacking and repacking etc...

It would be interesting to think about how large such an idea could get, with the right willing population and starting from scratch. The trouble is, any currrent town has a population in which some will be willing, but some (many?) will not. The railways example worked because people were already used to walking or riding or else not getting about. The railway was a bonus. Nowadays, many would see it as a step back, having got used to personal transport 'freedom'. I suspect it would take a long time for them to see the benefits.

I suppose Sark is sort of example, since only certain motorised traffic is allowed, but a) that is an island, so will always require an additional degree of logistics anyway and I don't think the population density is very large.

 

[Lardyboy]

I suppose Sark is sort of example, since only certain motorised traffic is allowed, but a) that is an island, so will always require an additional degree of logistics anyway and I don't think the population density is very large.

I was going to give Sark as an example Arch, then Venice, but thought that's not a very good example really. Isn't there somewhere in Switzerland with no motorised transport?

Zermatt! http://www.ski-zermatt.com/zermatt.html

 

[Speicher]

I was going to give Sark as an example Arch, then Venice, but thought that's not a very good example really. Isn't there somewhere in Switzerland with no motorised transport?

Zermatt! http://www.ski-zermatt.com/zermatt.html

It may say "no cars" in that article, but I think it means no private cars.
I arrived in Zermatt by train some years ago, and definitely got a taxi to the Hotel. Wengen has IIRC no motorised "cars" but is much smaller and flatter than Zermatt.

 

[Arch]

True. Of course, part of the success of that is that it's a tourist place (2.5 guest beds per resident). People go there and like the novelty for a week, but would they think they could live like that? (The residents manage of course, but how much is that because they know it's a tourist draw, so they put up with it)

I'm sorry I sound so negative, I'd love it if such an idea could work, I just don't rate people (esp British people) all that highly sometimes....

 

[Night Train]

Population size could be an issue as would perception of an existing population towards what is possible.
I don't see there being much problem with moving a reasonable load of goods given the right sort of vehicle and some electric assistance. In horse drawn days when one horse wasn't enough more horses were added on. Why not 2 or 4 or more people pedalling a pallet load of product to a nearby store. It would mean thoughtful distribution but in the 1960's-70's goods distribution changed from small packages of loose goods in almost random quantities to ISO pallet and container loads. Online shopping is already going back to small assorted loads coming together for local distribution.

The terminals could be either located central to the community, like train stations or at points around the perimeter of it like a motorway ring road.

Island communities is a good example but maybe also small isolated communities might be able to operate on a simmilar basis of being their own 'island'.

 

[Night Train]

It wouldn't have to be a British thing as it could be an idea for developing countries to avoid the mass influx of motor vehicles.

 

[Arch]

Maybe that is the thesis question. Part A - what would such a town be like, what infrastructure would be needed, etc. Part B - would people actually make it work, what would be their opppositions and doubts (and excuses) ,which parts would you have to abandon in the face of reality, etc....

For example, I'd suggest there is less need for personal private transport (unless someone is disabled), but more need for motorised goods transport (of course, you allow for sustainable transport in your plan, let's not lose sight of that).

 

[Arch]

It wouldn't have to be a British thing as it could be an idea for developing countries to avoid the mass influx of motor vehicles.

Ah well, immediately, it might work better!

 

[Speicher]

True. Of course, part of the success of that is that it's a tourist place (2.5 guest beds per resident). People go there and like the novelty for a week, but would they think they could live like that? (The residents manage of course, but how much is that because they know it's a tourist draw, so they put up with it)

I'm sorry I sound so negative, I'd love it if such an idea could work, I just don't rate people (esp British people) all that highly sometimes....

The Swiss have also had the imagination and foresight to put their bus stations (or bus stops, even in very small places) next door to each other, and co-ordinate the timetables of the two forms of transport. I agree that required a post-grad with triple honours in Transport Logistics, alledgely not available in this country.

Furthermore, if they add boats as a form of transport (as in Interlaken) the timetable is extrapolated to include all three forms of transport. Who knew that was possible?

 

[Arch]

The Swiss have also had the imagination and foresight to put their bus stations (or bus stops, even in very small places) next door to each other, and co-ordinate the timetables of the two forms of transport.

Oh really! That is just not 'playing the game'...

 

[Lardyboy]

The Swiss have also had the imagination and foresight to put their bus stations (or bus stops, even in very small places) next door to each other, and co-ordinate the timetables of the two forms of transport. I agree that required a post-grad with triple honours in Transport Logistics, alledgely not available in this country.

Furthermore, if they add boats as a form of transport (as in Interlaken) the timetable is extrapolated to include all three forms of transport. Who knew that was possible?

As have most countries in the world except our god forsaken little island.

 

[Night Train]

Yes, big personal transport may not be needed at all but everyone would own, or have access to, a human powered personal transport, or electric if disabled.
Some very heavy goods may requre planning ahead for by booking the use of all the community's electric vehicles to move it on delivery day for instance.
Perhaps in that sort of community very heavy goods may not be needed very often. Buildings could be light weight, factory machinery could be brought in once and then maintained for a long life, raw materials could be used sparingly to reduce transporting lots in and then removing lots of waste.
Services and processing could be aimed at local provision as with food stuff.
Technology could develop to be light in weight and light in energy consumption both in making and in use.

 

[Speicher]

Oh really! That is just not 'playing the game'...

No, it isn't is it, cos' then they go and print timetables, and you can easily get hold of one. And understand it, without a degree in higher algorithms. and then they run on time, and are usually clean, even if it is very old stock.

 

[Arch]

No, it isn't is it, cos' then they go and print timetables, and you can easily get hold of one. And understand it, without a degree in higher algorithms. and then they run on time, and are usually clean, even if it is very old stock.

oh really, how can that possibly work!

Perhaps in that sort of community very heavy goods may not be needed very often. Buildings could be light weight, factory machinery could be brought in once and then maintained for a long life, raw materials could be used sparingly to reduce transporting lots in and then removing lots of waste.
Services and processing could be aimed at local provision as with food stuff.
Technology could develop to be light in weight and light in energy consumption both in making and in use.

NT, maybe that's a third question - in order to make such a system work, what changes to our current ethos would be needed.

Of course, in your developing world example, people will probably already be used to recycling and reuse and keeping stuff working, so they will be half way there...