The Road Maniac and Pathetic Punishment Thread

[Alex321]

See, the guidance is bollards.

You're either stealing, or you're not.

You're a murderer, more you're not.

You rob a bank or you don't.

This idea that its more acceptable to be a little bit careless is nonsense, especially when someone has died. They were careless, full stop.

I disagree completely. People aren't robots, and very little is as black and white as you seem to believe.

 

[Profpointy]

See, the guidance is bollards.

You're either stealing, or you're not.

You're a murderer, more you're not.

You rob a bank or you don't.

This idea that its more acceptable to be a little bit careless is nonsense, especially when someone has died. They were careless, full stop.

There's a difference in culpability between an error and being a complete cock surely even if the outcome is tragically the same?

Racing on the public highway, moronic overtaking (which led to my father in law being badly smashed up through no fault of is own),
or drunk driving, or choosing to use a telephone whilst driving are all to a greater or lesser extent worse than driving sensibly as best you can and making a terrible mistake.

 

[Drago]

Willfull negligence, not error.

 

[Alex321]

Willfull negligence, not error.

As I often seem to have to remind you, people are not robots.

People make mistakes, and that is often not wilful anything.

 

[Profpointy]

Willfull negligence, not error.

I think the word "wilful" makes a big difference

 

[Drago]

You can't be negligent accidentally.

The decision to drive in a diligent manner is completely within our control. There is no force of nature or outside influence beyond a driver's control that can compel a driver not to drive in a careful and competent manner - there is only negligence, and that is entirely within the driver's gift to remedy should they make the effort to so choose.

Barring a genuinely unforeseeable mechanical failure or unforeseen medical episode there is no such thing as "accidentally" when it comes do taking command of a motor vehicle There is only diligence and negligence, and there is no shade of grey in between - it is an entirely binary choice.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

As I often seem to have to remind you, people are not robots.

People make mistakes, and that is often not wilful anything.

What would you class in "not willful"?

Driving at 125mph?

Racking up another three minor speeding offences after your first?

Can you be more specific?

 

[Alex321]

What would you class in "not willful"?

Driving at 125mph?

Of course not.

Racking up another three minor speeding offences after your first?

Can still be careless.

Can you be more specific?

Not really.

It is the differenc e between doing something deliberately stupid, and doing something just a bit careless.

 

[Poacher]

"A teenage motorist who filmed himself overtaking vehicles while driving with his knees has been sentenced for causing a crash which left a woman paralysed from the neck down.
...
Norwich Crown Court heard how on the morning of 18 January 2023, Taylor, who was 17 at the time, had used his mobile phone to make two calls, send one text and record five videos while driving.
The videos showed him travelling at speed and overtaking vehicles, with his knees on the steering wheel of his black Volkswagen Golf.
At about 11:00 GMT, he failed to see a Skoda Fabia waiting to turn right in front of him and he collided with the rear of the vehicle at East Tuddenham.
…
Taylor passed his driving test less than 12 weeks before the collision.
...
26 months in a young offender institution, disqualified from driving for 40 months."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2nzd4r63go

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Of course not.



Can still be careless.



Not really.

It is the differenc e between doing something deliberately stupid, and doing something just a bit careless.

By your definition, and channelling Lady Bracknell, I would certainly argue that continuing to speed on multiple further occasions after a conviction is deliberate, and stupid rather than mere misfortune.

And by extension, that it is quite impossible to get to the threshold for a ban, 12 points on a licence, without being "deliberately stupid" by your definition, or "wilful" by others.

Of course, you can disagree.

 

[Alex321]

You can't be negligent accidentally.

The decision to drive in a diligent manner is completely within our control. There is no force of nature or outside influence beyond a driver's control that can compel a driver not to drive in a careful and competent manner - there is only negligence, and that is entirely within the driver's gift to remedy should they make the effort to so choose.

Barring a genuinely unforeseeable mechanical failure or unforeseen medical episode there is no such thing as "accidentally" when it comes do taking command of a motor vehicle There is only diligence and negligence, and there is no shade of grey in between - it is an entirely binary choice.

This is simply false.

Fortunately, the law disagrees with you, as do almost all judges and even most police officers.

It really is not a simple binary choice, and only robots would think it might be.

By your logic, there is no difference between the idiot driving at 125 in a 70 limit, and somebody whose speed drifts up to 75 without them noticing. I don't think many people would agree with you.

 

[T4tomo]

As it says on the tin - a handy compartment to store all our examples of loons that get away with a derisory punishment.

Like this chap, clocked doing 125 MPH on the Corby by pass. Fined a few shekels that'll make him grumble a bit, but 14 day driving ban will surely teach him that extreme lawbreaking brings commensurate extreme consequences. Not.

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/...at-125mph-on-notorious-stretch-of-a43-4873324

In his defence - have you been to Corby? I'd want to bypass it pretty quickly....

 

[lazybloke]

I can see that not every RTC is caused by someone going 140 through a 20 zone by a primary school as children are spilling out of class, but I'm very uncomfortable (to put it mildly) that in a thread that discusses a death on the roads, that some here are keen to make excuses for poor driving.

"error"
"mistake"
etc
I'm of the firm opinion that RTCs and KSIs would be significantly eliminated if drivers just took their responsibilities more seriously.

One of my jobs is driving , doing my best to keep my passengers and my professional record/reputation in perfect condition. I'm deeply troubled by attitudes and behaviours that I see on the roads, but I'm hugely saddened that intelligent people on here are excusing careless/negligent and dangerous behaviour.

 

[Profpointy]

You can't be negligent accidentally.

The decision to drive in a diligent manner is completely within our control. There is no force of nature or outside influence beyond a driver's control that can compel a driver not to drive in a careful and competent manner - there is only negligence, and that is entirely within the driver's gift to remedy should they make the effort to so choose.

Barring a genuinely unforeseeable mechanical failure or unforeseen medical episode there is no such thing as "accidentally" when it comes do taking command of a motor vehicle There is only diligence and negligence, and there is no shade of grey in between - it is an entirely binary choice.

I can see you sincerely believe what you are saying, but surely you'd can see a fundamental difference betwen, say taking your eyes off a toddler whilst distracted, leading to a tragic outcome, compared to leaving a toddler alone all weekend whilst you go out clubbing?

Criminal law has the notion of "mens rea", the intent to do evil, which as an ex policeman you'll be familiar with. I don't think I'm being particularly radical in suggesting the same notion for negligent driving

 

[Drago]

I believe it because as a class 1 driver that's what I was taught.

You're diligent, or you're negligent.

This half arsed idea that you can be a little bit negligent and it gets written off as "accidental" in a court room is a fiction that exists to appease juries, because they're all car drivers and but for the grace of God could go any of tnem.

The reality is that a little bit negligent is still not accidental, and the consequences are potentially every bit as deadly as negligence so bad it is recklessness.

Behind the wheel we are responsible for our actions, good or bad, and shouldn't be given credit because we'd only intended to be a little bit naughty.