the river road

[rich p]

pretentious claptrap wrapped up in obscure language IMHO

 

[Abitrary]

A photo of an old lightship on Flickr.

Hope this helps.

thanks - if I'm honest, I thought a lightship was a metaphor for something else.

Now I see a lightship in it's cold-light-of-dayness, then I don't what else to say-ness.

 

[Abitrary]

pretentious claptrap wrapped up in obscure language IMHO

Please explain:

-what you find pretentious
-the language which has obscured your enjoyment

That poem sends shivers up my spine.

 

[rich p]

I have just wasted another precious 30 seconds of the little time I have left on this mortal coil re-reading it and it's still comes high up on the pretentious, meaningless faux-clever scale that some modern poets think is profound. I'm happy for you to like it but I prefer stuff that doesn't try so hard to be 'intellectual'. Perhaps I'm shallow preferring Betjeman, Larkin etc

 

[mickle]

A Lightship is a B class intergalactic space cruiser.
Long time 'dead' refers to suspended animation.
The 'River Road' is the space highway which takes you around the Cygnus X1 bypass to the Alpha Quadrant.

Duh.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

Mickle provides Richp with welcome fodder.

 

[rich p]

As further proof of my philistinism, I still think a poem is only a poem if it rhymes.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

pretentious claptrap wrapped up in obscure language IMHO

Okay, so because you don't understand it or find it beautiful, you just dismiss it... Poetry is not always easy, and you don't always have to 'understand' it, but that doesn't mean it is rubbish or indeed pretentious. As Abitrary said, you can let the words just wash over you, sink into you. It does something beyond the simple meaning of the words.

And pretentious is the last word I could ever think of using for Sean O'Brien. He is the opposite of prententious, because he knows exactly what he is doing and the effects he is creating - and it works. He may be out best contemporary poet. And not just IMHO - he's won just about every poetry prize going too.

Yet you like Larkin? Larkin is often tricky, difficult and cold - he has far more in common with O'Brien than Betjeman, who is about as far from Larkin in style and manner as one can imagine. IMHO of course.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

As further proof of my philistinism, I still think a poem is only a poem if it rhymes.

Now you are just being silly.

 

[rich p]

Okay, so because you don't understand it or find it beautiful, you just dismiss it... Poetry is not always easy, and you don't always have to 'understand' it, but that doesn't mean it is rubbish or indeed pretentious. As Abitrary said, you can let the words just wash over you, sink into you. It does something beyond the simple meaning of the words.
.

Well if that isn't worthy of going straight into pseuds corner!

So if it's incomprehensible gibberish it's just that I don't understand it. Cruel barb! I've just let the words wash over me whilst wasting another 30 seconds and I think I was right first time. Pretentious nonsense wrapped up in faux intellectualism. I repeat, I'm happy for you to be taken in like it but you must realise that you're just encouraging him

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Well if that isn't worthy of going straight into pseuds corner!

I thought I was making the effort to elucidate. But communication is a two-way process. If you just dismiss things that don't immediately explain themselves to you then you will certainly have some difficulty with the whole idea of poetic language. Either that or you're taking the piss.

 

[rich p]

I thought I was making the effort to elucidate. But communication is a two-way process. If you just dismiss things that don't immediately explain themselves to you then you will certainly have some difficulty with the whole idea of poetic language. Either that or you're taking the piss.

Not at all. I was merely pointing out that you seem to say that I either don't find it beautiful or I don't understand it and therefore dismiss it. Am I not allowed to simply dislike it without being accused of dismissing it?

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Not at all. I was merely pointing out that you seem to say that I either don't find it beautiful or I don't understand it and therefore dismiss it. Am I not allowed to simply dislike it without being accused of dismissing it?

Sure, but calling it 'pretentious clatrap' etc. is more than expressing dislike, it is saying that that the poet doesn't know what he's doing. It's using your dislike to express prejudice about what you think poetry should be.

 

[Crackle]

The phrase 'Long time dead' is either plagarised from another poem or too familiar to scan properly in my head, hence it spoils the whole poem for me.

 

[papercorn2000]

Curiously, Sean O'Brien is actually Kylie Minogue's pen name when she writes 'serious' stuff.

As proof, I offer you to name a time when you have seen Kylie and Sean together in the same room.

I rest my case...