The organic vegetables growers thread.

[mudsticks]

It seems to me - retired after 44 years in commercial horticulture - things are being a little over complicated.

I have an allotment with raised beds in Lancashire. I grow asparagus, Pak choi, cavalo Nero, purple sprouting, curly kale, snap peas, runner beans, onions, garlic, courgettes, strawberries, tomatoes, leeks, red currants, black currants, gooseberries, rhubarb, spinach beet, chard, peppers, sweet peas, plums, apples, all on an organic basis with one exception - I use Tomorite to feed my tomatoes and peppers.

The answer to the majority of issues is in soil management. Bi annually I bring in a ton of mixed FYM and mushroom compost. This I dig in over winter to a depth of around six inches. Not heavy digging more a gentle turning over as I work on a "no dig" philosophy whenever possible.

Every week I visit a local microbrewery and collect spent hops from them - FREE! The hops are used to mulch every bed, the tomato troughs, pots the peppers grow in etc. The result is almost zero weed germination, warmer soil and great moisture retention. Once the beds are mulched all the hops go on the compost heap.

I compost everything our household wastes which was once organic - paper, cardboard, vegetable peelings, egg boxes, all garden and allotment waste.

By using all of the above we grow a wide range of veg throughout the year. Each autumn the freezer is rammed with frozen produce. By learning to maintain a strong healthy soil, well mulched one can significantly improve productivity, eliminate all feed or fertilizer inputs and reduce allotment in season labour dramatically. Once planting is complete other than daily watering of tomatoes and peppers my allotment needs around 2-3 hours work per week.

Soil management is everything, get this right and everything else follows without the need for magic nettle potions!!

Yup we need to stop treating our soil like dirt.

I try to use minimum tillage, and spread tonnes and tonnes of greenwaste compost each year.

Presently experimenting with innoculated home made biochar to keep more carbon in the soil too.

 

[PaulSB]

I should add if I have an empty bed for any significant period I sow a lay crop to capture and put nitrogen back in to the soil. The greenery is dug in when I want to plant up.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Guys, I really was thinking about your ordinary, one bed plus lots of random tubs, urban gardener
Well, that's the level I'm at just now, the semi-industrial scale attempts will have to wait till I have paid my mortgage off

 

[mudsticks]

Guys, I really was thinking about your ordinary, one bed plus lots of random tubs, urban gardener
Well, that's the level I'm at just now, the semi-industrial scale attempts will have to wait till I have paid my mortgage off

Don't get too carried away @Pat.

Once upon a time I only had an allotment.

Now I've created a monster / rod for my own back, of a whole farm.. .

"Small is beautiful"

 

[Tail End Charlie]

I agree that soil is everything. I also have a free supply of spent hops and collect the spent coffee grinds from a local coffee shop, so the smell can be interesting at times. I even have access to unlimited horse manure, though I do have to compost it down before use as it is wood shavings mixed in.
The nettle and comfrey teas are just part of the fun, I mean, I even collect my own urine! (Not really I just use a watering can and use immediately). I rot down the horsetail (think I read somewhere that it gives an element, silica, I think, although I have no idea what silica does).
Basically if it's free, I'll use it in some way!

 

[mudsticks]

I agree that soil is everything. I also have a free supply of spent hops and collect the spent coffee grinds from a local coffee shop, so the smell can be interesting at times. I even have access to unlimited horse manure, though I do have to compost it down before use as it is wood shavings mixed in.
The nettle and comfrey teas are just part of the fun, I mean, I even collect my own urine! (Not really I just use a watering can and use immediately). I rot down the horsetail (think I read somewhere that it gives an element, silica, I think, although I have no idea what silica does).
Basically if it's free, I'll use it in some way!

Yes horsetail tea contains lots of silica.. Reckoned to be good for strengthening cell walls of plants like potatoes against fungal blight spores.

I use the separated urine from the compost loo, to hasten the composting of wood chip..

Perfect mix of carbon and nitrogen.. But no weed seeds (like you get in manure heaps)

 

[PaulSB]

Guys, I really was thinking about your ordinary, one bed plus lots of random tubs, urban gardener
Well, that's the level I'm at just now, the semi-industrial scale attempts will have to wait till I have paid my mortgage off

Pat I do apologise if I gave the wrong impression, it wasn't my intention. I'm very fortunate to have a large allotment. I live rurally and the allotment is at the top of the garden. When we bought our house the allotment came with it. About 25 years ago we got the chance to own it and seized that.

What I would encourage you to do is create a raised bed if there is room. Put great effort in to the soil - this really only takes one winter/spring and is then easily maintained. This will genuinely address many growing issues. Feeding, watering and pest management in particular.

Think carefully about what you want to grow. I only grow crops we enjoy, are expensive to buy. I refuse to grow potatoes as very cheap to buy and buggers to store. My lettuce, again cheap to buy but delicious home grown, I just chuck in to any available space. Buying the living lettuce from supermarkets and planting those out saves space and mucking around with seed sowing etc.

Our herbs are mainly grown in pots. The peppers are usually happiest in a pot in the backyard.

Two other tips for you. If space is limited only grow as many plants as your house can eat. One curly kale plant can be enough!

My other suggestion, which I do for everything, is grow large plants in pots before planting in your bed(s). Try using 9cm and 13cm pots. If you have a small area where this can happen it brings real benefits; small area to manage for young plants, well established, larger plants survive planting out better, such plants are less attractive to pests, it allows the cropping period to be shorter thus making best use of the available space.

Again my apologies, I misunderstood the discussion, the same principles apply regardless of the space involved. We ALL have huge successes and disappointing failures.

 

[biggs682]

Our beans are getting ready for some rain

 

[annedonnelly]

I came across this a couple of days ago - Vertical veg - might be of interest to people without much growing space. I've already had a go at making a hanging planter from a Tetrapak.

 

[mudsticks]

I came across this a couple of days ago - Vertical veg - might be of interest to people without much growing space. I've already had a go at making a hanging planter from a Tetrapak.

Not a bad idea if you really have no horizontal space at all, but there are massive problems with shading, unless established on an equator facing aspect, so much less solar power is gathered by the leaves, plus supplying enough water also an issue. .

Much better than nothing in a domestic situation, but not practical for food growing at scale.

Would be fantastic to see all our urban parks, and spaces ful of edible perennials, fruit trees, and veg patches though.

A few towns do it on an ad hoc basis, but wouldn't it be great if it was an integrated part of urban planning?

 

[PaulSB]

I came across this a couple of days ago - Vertical veg - might be of interest to people without much growing space. I've already had a go at making a hanging planter from a Tetrapak.

I like this site. I have to admit some scepticism when I followed the link but changed that view quickly. With limited space it's always going to be tricky to grow veg and herbs. For me the trick is to chose the plants which really add something extra to your meal. Then learn to grow those plants which suit your conditions.

 

[mudsticks]

I like this site. I have to admit some scepticism when I followed the link but changed that view quickly. With limited space it's always going to be tricky to grow veg and herbs. For me the trick is to chose the plants which really add something extra to your meal. Then learn to grow those plants which suit your conditions.

Yes definitely..

Fine for things like quick turn around cut and come again salads, and suchlike.

The stuff that should be eaten as fresh as possible for maximum flavour and nutrition.

 

[PaulSB]

@mudsticks 100% with you on this. Long-term crops won't be productive but lots of herbs, "zingy" tasting leaves, shoots etc. the things which really lift a meal would work very well.

 

[mudsticks]

@mudsticks 100% with you on this. Long-term crops won't be productive but lots of herbs, "zingy" tasting leaves, shoots etc. the things which really lift a meal would work very well.

You can get ready made mixes of things such as lettuces, endive and rocket which you sow in succession so as to always have fresh greens to hand.

Takes a bit of organisation, but like bread baking, after a while it becomes a habit.