The Olympic Road Race 2012 - Post Mortem

[Rob88]

Thank you “oldroadman” and “Thomk” for taking the trouble to reply courteously to what doubtless appeared to be a high handed and arrogant posting. Your comments certainly merit a reply below but first I must unreservedly apologise to you both and the other 1,000 or so people who viewed this thread and did not rise to the bait. Please allow me to explain why I started my rant the way I did.

When I decided to post my viewpoint I was very conscious of the likely reaction by many of this forums habitual contributors. I followed the latest Lance Armstrong court case correspondence and was appalled by some of the toxic postings. I decided that should my opening gambit be presented like a red rag to a bull I would be able to flush out at the outset the people best avoided. I waited to respond until I got replies from people who cared enough about the sport to focus on the message rather than sledge the messenger – it took longer than I expected.

I have to say the whole process was quite absorbing from an anthropological viewpoint. The early attackers probed at first, uncertain of the reaction then as more of their familiars joined in the attack they gained confidence as the pack gathered. Then the feeding frenzy really got going as they convinced themselves it was justifiable cruelty and contempt. Then they all lost interest as the cause of their annoyance appeared lifeless. I suppose that’s how bullying works.

Needless to say the subject is open to all and I welcome serious discussion from all new contributors. I certainly still have strong views on the subject and if someone can convince me otherwise it may help the grieving process…

Oldroadman
You are correct to surmise I have never raced as a pro but I have raced several times against British pros and many times against national teams.
You throw the old adage about hindsight 20/20 vision etc into the mix rather unfairly I think. I concede the point that it may look as though I chose Cancellara as the favourite with benefit of hindsight but since he crashed out it negates this somewhat. If we are going to learn from our mistakes we have to understand as best as possible what happened and why, that is the whole point of the exercise. The only accusation I make about the business in hindsight, is anger at myself and my own surprise when GB let the first break go unmarked on the flat out of London and then it dawned on me there was no bluff, GB really were nailing themselves to the public plan.

You wrote:
“it's reasonable to expect the race to play out like a proper pro race, which it did in a way. Aussies and Germans both had sprinters who were at least podium prospects, but failed to ride for them.”

Well I have two problems with that, first one is weak in this context second a show stopper:

The first commandment in amateur road racing is “Thou shalt not chase your own team-mates” if you have someone up the road, even if you have a better prospect trapped behind.
More importantly, the last thing the other teams wanted was a bunch sprint, they knew that even if his team was in shreds and lead out uncertain Cavendish would have got up there whatever it took. Why should they put it on a plate for him?

You accuse me of making “silly comments about DB”
I don’t think this was fair - this is what I actually said:

“Despite having the “Dream Team” Brailsford failed.
He did not apologise to the nation for this failure of judgement, he said on the BBC he would do it again – as though there was no alternative. He has achieved much but he should take this as a warning – he will not get away with it next time.”

It was watching DB say this on TV that prompted me to file this rant in the first place. He did not take responsibility for the monster error of judgement as I think he should have.
Had he said “I screwed up, it was a big gamble and it did not come off, the boys rode their hearts out. I take full responsibility for it.” I would have said fair enough, he is big enough to admit his mistakes and I would have had even more respect for him and my comments would never have been posted.

We all know what he has achieved and I assure you I admire him as much as you do but not unreservedly.We all screw up but if you cannot admit it, you – and those around you have a problem.

Subsequent to making my posting I saw him give another interview on the BBC with Gary Lineker at the height of all the gold medals pouring in from the track teams. He very deservedly received high praise for this and admitted that he had been approached by various interested parties for his undoubted managerial/motivational skills. When pressed, he clearly stated he would not take these offers up, he knew cycling and that is where he would stay. When I heard this I was rather surprised, he is the man of the moment and could write his own contracts. This was the classic time to move onto something else when you are at the top of your game, remember (Sir) Clive Woodwood after the Rugby World Cup?

Then it dawned on me, I realized what he saw in four years time in Rio. If we almost cleaned up on the track this time with the Manchester track to play with, what could we (he) do in four years time with another centre of excellence in the London track. Over the next four years every world track record will be broken by the British trackies in Manchester competing with the flood of new talent in London. The competition to get into the GB track squad will look like the world championships in itself. Why not – if the Chinese can totally dominate a sport like table tennis and clean up all the medals why can’t we? GB has the edge, the resources, the will power and best of all the organization in place already – thanks to Brailsford. The world is playing catchup but we have just doubled our track facilities, and I bet we double our funding after the games – the future in this respect looks stupendous.

Well this is all just great, but there is just this little bit of grit in my eye. So what happens when we win every track gold in Rio and still mess up the road race- who do we blame then? Better not blame the Aussies again the Queen will never forgive us if they finally quit the Commonwealth

Thomk
I agreed more or less completely with your own analysis but with different emphasis;

You say:
“2. The other teams gambled and failed in their gamble not to help the Brits”
The riders left with the GB group as they left the Boxhill circuit all knew the Brits were finished, they also knew that the best guys were a minute up the road and they were not coming back. Why should they chase their own riders? They had more chance of a gold in the lottery of the breakaway than by towing Cavendish up there. Yes I am sure there was an under-current of professional pleasure of seeing the Brits squirming on the hook of their own making but that’s what happens when you fail to treat your rivals with respect. In reality they simply did not ride to help us, many more injudicious comments from our boys and heaven help us if they truly ride against us.

 

[lb81]

An observation regarding the DB discussion on the Olympics programme:

When Lineker asked if his talents would work for other sports his answer was that the 'model' would work for any sport and indeed in other walks of life. He also said that it was about making an individual the best they can be, as part of an ongoing cycle of peaks at the right times for major events and clearly he and the rest of the BC team have got it spot on.

The way i see it, in regard to the road the focus was on the TDF and for the Olympics it was the track.

All our key guys are in the form of their lives in line with DB's master plan as above. The problem was they had clearly decided that they were going to deliver Cav to the mall to sprint home for gold and that was that. There was no plan B and if it didnt work then so be it.

They knew they had shown their hand. If it worked then the glory would have matched the hype. As it was, it didnt work out and they got the glory anyway by cleaning up pretty much everything else.

In the wake of such massive success, i would say that DB has nothing to apologise for whatsoever. If the plan was to simply 'win the road race' we would have smashed it, of that there is no question in my mind based on current form. It was lost because the entire team dedicated themselves to one member in the same way Team Sky dedicated themselves to BW during the TDF.

I was gutted about the road race, but in light of other success there is no grit left in my eyes, although i might need my shades due to the glare coming from all the gold the team have around their necks...

 

[raindog]

When I decided to post my viewpoint I was very conscious of the likely reaction by many of this forums habitual contributors. I followed the latest Lance Armstrong court case correspondence and was appalled by some of the toxic postings. I decided that should my opening gambit be presented like a red rag to a bull I would be able to flush out at the outset the people best avoided. I waited to respond until I got replies from people who cared enough about the sport to focus on the message rather than sledge the messenger – it took longer than I expected.

What pompous, arrogant tosh. It's this kind of bollox that could put newcomers to the forum off posting in here.

 

[Noodley]

... a high handed and arrogant posting.

Thats's the first valid point you have made.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Summary: Rob88 thought he was too good for the existing discussion on the road race, which had already discussed all of the points he made within his patronising OP, first was rightfully ridiculed for his attitude, then got pwned by oldroadman (an actual ex-pro cyclist) and finally was forced to backtrack, concede many of his points, and pretend it was all an anthropological experiment.

Another serving of humble pie, anyone?

 

[redcard]

Summary: Rob88 thought he was too good for the existing discussion on the road race, which had already discussed all of the points he made within his patronising OP, first was rightfully ridiculed for his attitude, then got pwned by oldroadman (an actual ex-pro cyclist) and finally was forced to backtrack, concede many of his points, and pretend it was all an anthropological experiment.

Another serving of humble pie, anyone?

You're being stupid. This is obviously the second stage of his experiment.

 

[mcshroom]

Strangely I do qualify as a county (and as a junior, international) class Chess player.

My reading of what happened was that the breakaway got a jump on the last climb as they would have to if they didn't want to set up a parade for Cavendish. Team Sky were too far back in the bunch going up a narrow road and were not able to pull back in such a large group.

You would have expected the Gemans and others to have worked a bit harder in pulling that break back in, but if the GB team had positioned themselves better at Box Hill on the last climb where the attack was likely to come then they may not have needed to pull in a break at all.

In summary, it's racing and they missed the break - it happens.

 

[Rob88]

For the benefit of the early contributors coming back for another bite the clue was in the opening.
In chess the word "transpose" means shifting the game on to a different opening track from that on which it started. Players sometimes use transpositions deliberately in order to avoid variations they dislike, lure opponents into unfamiliar or uncomfortable territory or simply to worry and unbalance them.

Glad to hear from a chess player as I was struggling to typify GB's opening reaction to the first attack which revealed to all their absurd game plan and set the scene for the whole disaster. How would you describe it Mcshroom, perhaps Queens Gambit Declined?

 

[Chris-H]

All i want to know is does anyone know when it'll be repeated,me and the mrs missed it

 

[mcshroom]

I would personally describe it as neglecting an opponents attack on your king as you are too busy protecting your knight, due to a belief that you will win by material superiority alone, regardless of actual position

 

[rich p]

For the benefit of the early contributors coming back for another bite the clue was in the opening.
In chess the word "transpose" means shifting the game on to a different opening track from that on which it started. Players sometimes use transpositions deliberately in order to avoid variations they dislike, lure opponents into unfamiliar or uncomfortable territory or simply to worry and unbalance them.

Glad to hear from a chess player as I was struggling to typify GB's opening reaction to the first attack which revealed to all their absurd game plan and set the scene for the whole disaster. How would you describe it Mcshroom, perhaps Queens Gambit Declined?

You have some serious self-esteem issues here. Have you thought about seeing a trick cyclist?

Alternatively and a mite cheaper, I might add, just set up a poll on here as to how many think you're wickedly clever and able to manipulate others at will and how many think you're a prick. I'm undecided as yet by the way.

 

[Dayvo]

Alternatively and a mite cheaper, I might add, just set up a poll on here as to how many think you're wickedly clever and able to manipulate others at will and how many think you're a prick. I'm undecided as yet by the way.

Ooh, you fibber! You made your mind up after reading the very first post!

 

[Risex4]

Nuts to it, I'll bite again and take the flame wrap.

What a cretin.

Firstly before we get into things; strategy 101. Simplcity. Whether its war, politics, cycling or some weird-ass pseudo ploy rubbish about flushing out toxic posters, you keep things simple. A needlessly over-complicated and convoluted plan is a plan more prone to failure or yield freak results (ie results not of the planner's design). And is often the mark of an incompetent strategist ironically enough. Thats a freebee for you.

You're opening grand oration. 3,517 words can be condensed down into about four sentances;
Despite having the 'best riders' (a matter of opinion, not fact. Debating 101 freebee; don't present opinion as out-and-out fact - logical fallacies invaldiate any argument), we didn't meet the expectations of winning the race (expectations you rather presumptuously attribute to "the nation", and then consequently get 'expectations' mixed up with 'hopes' or 'aspirations'), a fault which can be wholly layed at Dave Brailsford's door on the fact that he got the tactics wrong amd should have known better (solidly linking failure in achieving a goal to failure of tactical planning. These two things are never, ever, in a mutually exclusive relationship when you have external variables. Like other riders).

You then go on to set out the grand master plan of tactics which would have surely yielded a different result, and pose counter-factual scenerios. All rather splendid, but in reality holds about as much merit in arguing at length as wondering what the world be like if man had evolved wings. If Hitler hadn't dithered between marching directly on Moscow and splitting Army Group Centre up constantly chasing multiple objectives, might we all now be speaking German and looking forward to the Rennen rund um das Reich?

The waffle about the BBC was irrelevant and superfluous to the debate you were trying to initiate (see #over complication). Therefore I choose to ignore it.

As far as DB not appologising; who to? You? Im glad he hasnt done anything so crass. Its the mark of a man who knows what he's doing, accepts the fluidity of the game he plays and knows he will (along with his charges) learn and improve. Winners don't appologise for losing - ever - because they know it losing is part of winning.

As I was evidently a bully first time around, please allow me to retort properly. As strong a line up as we TeamGB put out, there are no certainties in competitive action. You can only plan to mitigate your weaknesses and your opponents strengths. Sometimes these plans are enough, sometimes they aren't. Could we have tried something different? Of course. Is the outcome of that destined to be different to reality? Who knows? What if we had chased down the break-away? Maybe got the peleton over excited into saturation attacks which the four guys protecting Cav would have ran out of steam trying to consistently ward off? And yielded the same result? Ultimately DB says he wouldn't have done anything different, and Im personally inclined to take the evaluation of someone who has achieved what he has achieved. As you yourself conceed.

Ergo, this is sport. Shyte most definately happens. The most well laid plans of mice and men lead to Man United being knocked out in the 3rd Round of the League Cup by York City.

You're second dissertation. I can't be bothered to go on much longer, but the problem with guys who exhibit Napoleon Complex is that they of course are very rarely Napoleon. I saw no bullying or attacking mentality. A discussion (which as I've already said, invalidated itselt from the off) merely delved into a bit of light hearted ribbery. A man of skill could have remedied the situation rather easily. If you were looking to stimulate a high-level debate, somehow by stirring up a hornets nest... how do I put this? Oh, thats simple. Tactically, you got it wrong.

This is all of course assuming that a debate was your actual aim as you stated? Hmm.
Here's the thing though. If you are such a tactical genuis on unsurpassed bredth of experience, Im sure you will maintain an equally highly qualified peer group. Which begs the question why are you here in the first place? If you are "appalled" by a society's expression and commentary, why insert yourself into said society? To change it? To mend its wicked ways and put it on the path to enlightenment? What a noble crusade. Or, alternatively, you're not merely a troll are you? Trolls get ridiculed. And bullied. With justification.

As a man of undoubted superior interlect, consider the following; "The most ignorant of peasants makes the wisest of kings."

Now, stop being an ass and chat nicely. You just may be surprised by what mere mortals can add to a discussion.

This post was fuelled with 80% alcohol and 20% chicken korma. No llamas were harmed during the construction of this reply.

 

[mcshroom]

Risex. I may agree with most of what you say, but as someone may have just posted, simplicity is the way to go

 

[Noodley]

Whatever it was supposed to be, it turned out as 100% nobbery