The Missing Link

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mondobongo

Über Member
The past must be condoned, how could you possibly know who to apply sanctions against years after the fact, there were still clean riders as well.

I watch the old footage and enjoy it in my view its still fantastic to see Pantani climb and break people etc. That was then this is now is how my head deals with it.
 

Dave5N

Über Member
rustychisel said:
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Argue/debate the topic at hand, goddamit! Is that too much to ask? [obviously it is].;)

If you wrote clear English, it might be possible.

How did you know I'm a policeman? :ohmy:
 
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rustychisel

Well-Known Member
Dave5N said:
How did you know I'm a policeman? :ohmy:


I didn't but now all become clear... unwillingness to read or comprehend. Failure to act. General disregard for other point of view. Dogged pursuit of own agenda. Ability to live in the past regardless of facts presented. Inability to understand plain English unless presented in quasi-reporting mode ("the perpetrator was observed…"):biggrin:

Didn't you know English is my second language and I have a speech impediment?;)
 

Dave5N

Über Member
rustychisel said:
I didn't but now all become clear... unwillingness to read or comprehend. Failure to act. General disregard for other point of view. Dogged pursuit of own agenda. Ability to live in the past regardless of facts presented. Inability to understand plain English unless presented in quasi-reporting mode ("the perpetrator was observed…"):blush:

Didn't you know English is my second language and I have a speech impediment?:sad:


:smile:
 
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rustychisel

Well-Known Member
Tetedelacourse said:
So Rusty, how do you reconcile the doping/ effort conundrum of past and present?

I genuinely don't see a conundrum, seeing racing through the years as one long thread. Same sh1t, different year, so to speak. And it's clear the teams, management and riders do much the same. There's enough evidence, I think, that 'tainted' riders become 'tainted' staff and 'tainted' DS, and 'tainted' riders initiate other riders into the practise. There's no conundrum to resolve there, and there's not a big enough swell for change yet.
Which leaves me watching and wondering what level of fraud is being perpetrated. I watch the spectacle - as do you - full of awe for the class of Contador, the power of Cancellara, the genuine humanity of seeing Ullrich break his spirit against the might of Armstrong… and I love the battle. But I have taken the knocks hard (as a passive watcher) and perhaps the final straw was when Landis got booted from the Tour.
I grew up watching Hinault (he's a God) and have no idea whether he doped. But Pollentier did, Delgado did... etc. The evidence suggests they all did.
Nowadays I cannot grasp that people still laud Pantani, to choose another obvious example.
It's not a conundrum but it's very sad not knowing whether what you witness is a level playing field. I come from the same city as O'Grady and would love to be able to assert he's a clean rider. Would I put my house on it? Not likely; not when I've heard no claim from the rider concerned. And in such a climate you suspend judgement or perhaps even believe the worst. This is the great pity, for me, and I am annoyed beyond reason when I hear claims (an example only, you understand) that Millar is clean because he's 'done his time' or 'he's one of us'.
Anyway, that's a bit of my thinking, not world beating I know, and a bit OT.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
zimzum42 said:
It's still good watching the racing, so who cares? I don't.....

Well I care! I want to know that they're clean and all racing on a level playing field , so to speak.

The past is a different matter. Is it worth hounding or disgracing riders in the past? Probably not but if they still influence the present such as Rominger(allegedly) then maybe it is.

You sound a bit like the UCI, Zimzum, when most people want every rider to have the same chance of winning.
 

zimzum42

Legendary Member
maybe it's like WWE wrestling, everyone knows it's fake, but it's still hugely popular.....
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
zimzum42 said:
maybe it's like WWE wrestling, everyone knows it's fake, but it's still hugely popular.....

The problem is that not everyone is faking. Some are clean and some are cheating wherein lies the problem for me.
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
zimzum42 said:
maybe it's like WWE wrestling, everyone knows it's fake, but it's still hugely popular.....

Oh, come on. WWE is a pantomime. Whether cyclists are doping or not they are still right up against the edge of what human beings are capable. That's what makes it such a great sport. It is also what gives the incentive to dope. Like Rusty, I enjoy the spectacle and I care. The two are not incompatible.
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
Flying_Monkey said:
Oh, come on. WWE is a pantomime. Whether cyclists are doping or not they are still right up against the edge of what human beings are capable. That's what makes it such a great sport. It is also what gives the incentive to dope. Like Rusty, I enjoy the spectacle and I care. The two are not incompatible.

I disagree with that FM. The desire to win is what gives the incentive to dope.

But as I said before, I agree with the position that you can still be a fan of the sport and oppose doping, even though the evidence says that most do (or have done) it. And, as I said before, I don't see how you can be a fan of the sport without holding that position.
 
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