The long road to ruin

[GrumpyGregry]

Mike, are you really saying fuel should be subsidised for residents of the countryside ?

Thus someone commuting 50 miles daily from a village would be OK, but form town to town would not?
Why not cheap beer for country folk ?

country folk iz entitled. Ger'off'moi'laand.

 

[MikeG]

country folk iz entitled. Ger'off'moi'laand.

Gormless comment. The comment, note, not you, as I know how badly you take any hint of "playing the man". But that comment really is moronic.

Could either of you who are implying that I am in favour of subsidising fuel for the rural population please quote anything I have said which supports this implication? Or indeed where I posted in favour of subsidising rural internet access.

Given that I know you can't, I will simply say that a fuel price hike, which was what this discussion was about, would not have evenly distributed (geographically and socially) effects. Pointing this out does not imply support for one sector of the population above another, nor support for interventionist policies such as subsidies. Nor does pointing out the stupidity of the suggestion that the market will provide transport for those that can't afford to drive post a fuel price hike, or the crassness of " everyone can shop online these days..." suggest anything other than that I recognise crassness and stupidity when I see it.

Look on it as a yellow card for playing the man.

Not within your remit.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Gormless comment. The comment, note, not you, as I know how badly you take any hint of "playing the man". But that comment really is moronic.

Really not very good at this are you.

Not within your remit.

Not your remit to determine what my remit is.

 

[mcshroom]

They already do. Highway authority income in counties with large rural areas is chiefly generated by community charge in URBAN areas. The townies have always subsidised the rural roads network.

Trunk roads are paid for out of general taxation so folk in say, south London, chip in for the A24 and A27 that they never ever use.

This simply ins't true Greg.

IPPR themselves showed that transport investment in London per person is higher than in all the other regions of England combined: -
http://www.ippr.org/publications/st...analysis-of-transport-infrastructure-spending

In the worst disparity. London received 520 times as much money as the mainly rural North East, per person.

 

[Archie_tect]

Why do different types of vehicle have to pay the same fuel tax?

Technology can easily fix that for us.

Just let UK based HGVs and PSVs use red diesel like farmers do and that will solve the hauliers' problem and the subsidised bus routes in one fell swoop! BUT make fuel economy a priority for HGVs and buses and tax them according to emissions so that investment goes into commercial transportation and electric vehicle design for commercial vehicles as well. Have a look at the Quayside electric buses and Smith Vehicles R+D.

 

[Profpointy]

Just let UK based HGVs and PSVs use red diesel like farmers do and that will solve the hauliers' problem and the subsidised bus routes in one fell swoop! BUT make fuel economy a priority for HGVs and buses and tax them according to emissions so that investment goes into commercial transportation and electric vehicle design for commercial vehicles as well. Have a look at the Quayside electric buses and Smith Vehicles R+D.

shome mishtake shurely ?

Remove fuel tax and replace with emissions tax - so.... would't emissions be directly in proportion to fuel used

 

[Archie_tect]

Mistake?
Keep both, otherwise you are penalising national long hauliers.... unless you can radically convert UK long haul to use trains and local distribution hubs + insist they use electric vehicles [like bigger, more efficient milk floats!]

 

[GrumpyGregry]

This simply ins't true Greg.

IPPR themselves showed that transport investment in London per person is higher than in all the other regions of England combined: -
http://www.ippr.org/publications/st...analysis-of-transport-infrastructure-spending

In the worst disparity. London received 520 times as much money as the mainly rural North East, per person.

London is not a county with a large rural area

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 3095413, member: 45"]I took this attractive a local pool on Saturday. Beautiful, sunny day. By the sea.

Look more closely at the horizon over the sea...

[/QUOTE]Smog? Pollution from motor vehicles kills and injures many many more than RTCs do, no?

 

[Archie_tect]

+ LEA education money is used to cover transport costs to get children to and from NE rural schools so, with the Barnett formula, RDF grants, LEP funding and general per capita spending taken into account the disparity with other Regions across all government funding for the NE is even greater, but especially when compared to the SE.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Mistake?
Keep both, otherwise you are penalising national long hauliers.... unless you can radically convert UK long haul to use trains and local distribution hubs + insist they use electric vehicles [like bigger, more efficient milk floats!]

HGV seems perfect platform for electrification. Load capacity would have to be reduced for batteries but with less pollution there can be more HGVs. And they can be made to travel deliver at night when roads are clearer of cars. But is electric generation less polluting than diesel trucks?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Mistake?
Keep both, otherwise you are penalising national long hauliers.... unless you can radically convert UK long haul to use trains and local distribution hubs + insist they use electric vehicles [like bigger, more efficient milk floats!]

HGV seems perfect platform for electrification. Load capacity would have to be reduced for batteries but with less pollution there can be more HGVs. And they can be made to travel deliver at night when roads are clearer of cars. But is electric generation less polluting than diesel trucks?

 

[Archie_tect]

You can power each wheel so it is vastly more efficient as smaller electric motors are required. The threads on electric generation c.f. petrol/diesel have been fairly well covered so didn't want to divert the thread on to that.

 

[mcshroom]

They already do. Highway authority income in counties with large rural areas is chiefly generated by community charge in URBAN areas. The townies have always subsidised the rural roads network.

Trunk roads are paid for out of general taxation so folk in say, south London, chip in for the A24 and A27 that they never ever use.

London is not a county with a large rural area

Indeed not. As the most urban region of the UK it swallows up the majority of the money being put into the pot per person. So who is subsidising whom?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Indeed not. As the most urban region of the UK it swallows up the majority of the money being put into the pot per person. So who is subsidising whom?

the nation subsidises its capital sure, but in a county like West Sussex the towns subsidise the rurality.