The depressing Manchester vote.

[User269]

The people of Manchester said no, so let them get more congested - it's their choice.

...and the cult of the individual rules, sod everthing and everyone else.

I would like a referendum about where I live here in rural Dorset.
I want to get more pay for my job in the NHS, and to provide a better service to my patients. But I want to pay less tax to (not) pay for it. I want all my fuel costs subsidised and road tax exemption like the local farmers, and I want my local economy to thrive but please could all the tourists bugger off, especially since they never go swimming, hunting, walking or anything and just drive around all over the lanes 'exploring', .........in fact let's have a congestion charge here, no, better still, close the countryside to outsiders, yeh, like we did when we pretended to have foot & mouth a few years back, except I'm allowed to do whatever I want 'cos I said so (pant).............oh, I've salivated over my keyboard............deep breaths, deep breaths, ...............

I'll get me coat.

 

[girofan]

Manchester Corporation said Mancunian's could have better public transport, trains and infastructure after they voted YES. Mancunians didn't believe them! They said better facilities BEFORE, then we'll think about it, we're not stupid....

ITV claims that 15 million + will watch the final of the 'X Factor'. Someone in Manchester must be stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TVC]

...and the cult of the individual rules, sod everthing and everyone else.

I would like a referendum about where I live here in rural Dorset.
I want to get more pay for my job in the NHS, and to provide a better service to my patients. But I want to pay less tax to (not) pay for it. I want all my fuel costs subsidised and road tax exemption like the local farmers, and I want my local economy to thrive but please could all the tourists bugger off, especially since they never go swimming, hunting, walking or anything and just drive around all over the lanes 'exploring', .........in fact let's have a congestion charge here, no, better still, close the countryside to outsiders, yeh, like we did when we pretended to have foot & mouth a few years back, except I'm allowed to do whatever I want 'cos I said so (pant).............oh, I've salivated over my keyboard............deep breaths, deep breaths, ...............

I'll get me coat.

Fair enough, my slightly flippently put point is that the Mancs don't see it as a problem (as individuals), as ant says, it's not that bad. When the situation gets worse and enough of them reach the tipping point where they find the congestion unacceptable, then they will vote for action.
It is human nature that only when you get right on the edge of the cliff do you get worried about the drop.

 

[Night Train]

I must admit to being very confused about democracy as its also possible for a small minority to object to what the majority want and stop it happening.

I'm very confused by that statement too.

If the majority want something that is open to a vote then why did they not vote for it?
If an overwelming vote went against somthing then surely that must mean that it wasn't wanted.

One cannot complain about a vote not going the way one wanted as a failing of democracy. The only failure of democracy in this country is that such small numbers of people bother to vote. Those who are unhappy and didn't vote only have themselves to blame.

 

[snorri]

It is human nature that only when you get right on the edge of the cliff do you get worried about the drop.

So true!
The council should have implemented the charge and had the referendum two years later, that way people would have been able to make an intelligent choice of keeping the charge or reverting to the old ways.

 

[rich p]

So true!
The council should have implemented the charge and had the referendum two years later, that way people would have been able to make an intelligent choice of keeping the charge or reverting to the old ways.

If it's true that the traffic in London has reverted to pre-charge levels then perhaps it could be regarded as a cynical money making excercise?

 

[Tharg2007]

When people say it's the car drivers that voted it out because they are selfish and thinking of their own pockets, well thats complete bollox. According to the proposals only a small percentage of drivers would have had to pay so why would nearly 80% of the voting public reject it? there were over 800,000 votes against the proposals so if it was "the evil car drivers" who wanted to save money this would mean we have 800,000 cars commuting in and out of Manchester on a daily basis.

I cycle to work daily from outside the m60 across both proposed charging rings, I don't consider myself stupid, I have a descent enough job and can make my own decisions based on the information around me so why would someone like me (and there are many more) vote against it? you have to ask yourself this surely.

Spouting crap and making out the majority of Mancunians are stupid only makes you look stupid.

 

[John the Monkey]

The more congestion the better, tbh. If the bloody things aren't moving, the half asleep bozos at the wheel can't drive them into me.

 

[Smokin Joe]

The people of Manchester were offered a choice and they overwhelmingly went for the no-charge option. They got what they wanted, what is depressing about that?

 

[LLB]

First Red Ken booted out by the electorate, now the Mac CC has gone the same way.

The people have spoken, and their vote says a lot about their feelings of being nanny'd.

Roll on the general election....

 

[simoncc]

The result is a wonderful thing for Manchester. We've got what we wanted - no congestion charge. It's amazing that six or seven of the ten Greater Manchester councils were completely out of touch with the views of their local people and supported the charge. We should have more referendums to ensure that we get what we want and are not subjected to the grand schemes of local councillors and employed council staff keen to make a name for themselves and their pet projects.

 

[Globalti]

It's not just councillors - wasn't the European Union inspired by high ideals?

The vote failed because people didn't trust the politicians to deliver what was offered. Simple.

 

[simoncc]

It's not just councillors - wasn't the European Union inspired by high ideals?

The vote failed because people didn't trust the politicians to deliver what was offered. Simple.

That's certainly the main thing, but also the benefits of the scheme were very vague giving the councils easy get outs on anyone challenging them on failing to deliver. And it was never satisfactorily explained why Manchester needed a C charge zone ten times the size of London's when London is a much larger and more congested city.

And another thing. All the councils which supported the charge and which claimed to want to discourage car use and encourage more use of public trnasport run residents parking schemes which give subsidised on-street parking spaces at rates as low as £25 per year so encouraging car ownership and use.

 

[summerdays]

Years ago in Bristol the council gave us the option to decide what level of council tax to have - there were 4 possible options, and obviously the more it went up, the more would be spent on providing services. Suprise suprise - it was was the vote for no change in council tax.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1170631.stm

It doesn't work to ask a direct question to the public, they don't see the longer view just the jingle of coins. It seems to be far better to include it in your original plans at the time of election. Politicians are supposed to make those difficult discissions for us.

 

[domd1979]

Doesn't just affect people in Manchester. Take commuters for example.... car commuters into Manchester may have gladly paid the charge, rail commuters would have benefited from the extra investment. But they weren't given a say.

The people of Manchester were offered a choice and they overwhelmingly went for the no-charge option. They got what they wanted, what is depressing about that?