I did try connect when I first got my garmin, but in the end couldn't be bothered with connecting to the pc after each ride, so got out of the habit.
The Annual Lunacy Climbing Challenge Chatzone
- Thread starter ColinJ
- Start date
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OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
It's... SPOOKY time! 
I subscribed to Cycling Weekly for 30 years but didn't renew my subscription at the end of the summer. I wasn't reading it as avidly as I used to and couldn't justify the expense.
They either made a mistake last week or were trying to tempt me back because after a couple of months gap, a copy of CW plopped through the letter box again. I have only just got round to looking at it. I got as far as page 31, featuring an article by Simon Warren...
I subscribed to Cycling Weekly for 30 years but didn't renew my subscription at the end of the summer. I wasn't reading it as avidly as I used to and couldn't justify the expense.
They either made a mistake last week or were trying to tempt me back because after a couple of months gap, a copy of CW plopped through the letter box again. I have only just got round to looking at it. I got as far as page 31, featuring an article by Simon Warren...
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Although similar in intent (do lots of climbing without resorting to repeats) SW's approach is different to yours in that it requires using each hill only once, not each road. So you can use a road in both directions, and several times if you're not classing it as a "hill". This enables the use of cunning overlapping loops as in my route below. Unfortunately this breaks his "10 miles from home" rule as the furthest point in the ride was about 20km (~12.5 miles) from my home as the crow flies.It's... SPOOKY time!
I subscribed to Cycling Weekly for 30 years but didn't renew my subscription at the end of the summer. I wasn't reading it as avidly as I used to and couldn't justify the expense.
They either made a mistake last week or were trying to tempt me back because after a couple of months gap, a copy of CW plopped through the letter box again. I have only just got round to looking at it. I got as far as page 31, featuring an article by Simon Warren...
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I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
- Location
- Sunny Ashton-under-Lyne
OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
**** STOP PRESS!!! ****
I was about to rush this through to be in time for the NY but then I realised that there is an enormous safety issue! The nature of this challenge will encourage people to seek out steep little climbs and avoid main roads. I was just thinking of where I want to ride, and then it struck me - these routes could be VERY hazardous in poor weather conditions, and therefore not suited to a monthly challenge. I don't want somebody who delays a ride until the end of January, waiting for better conditions, to crash on an icy 15% descent because they felt forced out to 'go for it' on the 31st!
Instead, I will make it a sister challenge to the distance Lunacy Challenge. This will be the Lunacy Climbing Challenge.
I am removing the 'no roads twice' rule. That does mean that minor undulations in repeated roads may repeatedly contribute to the total ascent. Just make sure that significant climbs are at least (say) 80-90% of your total! It felt stupid (for example) that Great Dun Fell would not qualify in a climbing challenge, and there are several lesser examples round here that I want to include***!
I would like to start the challenge threads soon so I need to finalise the details. Anybody interested please give your reactions to my suggestions below. (Yes, I know that some of you think it is a silly idea... You can just ignore it and move on!
)
This challenge is intended for riders who can access enough hills to make it reasonably possible. Apologies to those who live in the flatlands. Qualifying rides will be short, sharp shocks! What speed you do them at is up to you. If you want to make the challenge really hard, sprint up the climbs. If you prefer an easier life, relax, gear down, and spin!
*** Horsehold Road in Hebden Bridge is a good example. A tough little climb to a hillside hamlet, but the road eventually fizzles out into farm tracks and bridleways.
I was about to rush this through to be in time for the NY but then I realised that there is an enormous safety issue! The nature of this challenge will encourage people to seek out steep little climbs and avoid main roads. I was just thinking of where I want to ride, and then it struck me - these routes could be VERY hazardous in poor weather conditions, and therefore not suited to a monthly challenge. I don't want somebody who delays a ride until the end of January, waiting for better conditions, to crash on an icy 15% descent because they felt forced out to 'go for it' on the 31st!
Instead, I will make it a sister challenge to the distance Lunacy Challenge. This will be the Lunacy Climbing Challenge.
I am removing the 'no roads twice' rule. That does mean that minor undulations in repeated roads may repeatedly contribute to the total ascent. Just make sure that significant climbs are at least (say) 80-90% of your total! It felt stupid (for example) that Great Dun Fell would not qualify in a climbing challenge, and there are several lesser examples round here that I want to include***!
I would like to start the challenge threads soon so I need to finalise the details. Anybody interested please give your reactions to my suggestions below. (Yes, I know that some of you think it is a silly idea... You can just ignore it and move on!
)This challenge is intended for riders who can access enough hills to make it reasonably possible. Apologies to those who live in the flatlands. Qualifying rides will be short, sharp shocks! What speed you do them at is up to you. If you want to make the challenge really hard, sprint up the climbs. If you prefer an easier life, relax, gear down, and spin!
- If you use metric units you must climb 1,000+ metres in less than 40 km. If you prefer imperial units, your target is 3,300+ ft in less than 25 miles. That is a pretty stiff target of 40m/km or 132 ft/mile. It would correspond to climbing 20 km/12.5 miles at an average gradient of 5% (10 km/6.25 miles at 10% and so on) and then the same distance again on the flat or downhill.
- The idea is to cram hills into the shortest possible routes without repeating significant climbs IN THE SAME DIRECTION on a given ride. You CAN repeat stretches of road as long as you don't count any significant climb more than once. So, you CAN count dead-end climbs and their descents, but only once per ride. In fact you can ride out, turn round eventually, then come back along the same roads the opposite way as long as your total ascent meets or exceeds the target. You could, for example, ride up and down a valley detouring up and down climbs on the valley sides on the way. (The A646/A6033 will serve me well!)
- You don't have to start from home but you DO have to return to your starting point. That distance is what counts. How you get to and from the start/finish point is up to you. Cycle there, drive there, catch a train... (whatever). If you wanted to insert a hilly qualifying section in the middle of a ride that you were also using (for example) in the Metric Century A Month Challenge, that would be fine. I am arbitrarily making a limit of one qualifying ride a day so don't bother inventing a stupidly hilly 100 km route with 3 x 1,000+ m hilly sections in it!
- Do this at least 13 times in the year. The challenge starts every year on January 1st and finishes on December 31st but don't take any chances with poor weather conditions. Especially important - WATCH OUT FOR ICY DESCENTS ON WINTER RIDES! If in doubt, postpone your ride and catch up later in the year. Try not to leave your last few rides until late November or December (or whenever your winter is) - you may well not get safe, pleasant cycling conditions then!
- For your masochistic pleasure (!) you might like try to achieve even tougher climbing ratios on some of your routes. I will be trying to find the shortest route round here which will hit the target.
- Decide for yourself how you measure the numbers. It isn't a competition so just pick a reasonably accurate method and stick to it. (Use your GPS, an OS map, Strava... whatever.)
- Decide for yourself whether you use the same route more than once in a given year. I reckon I can find 13+ variations round here so I will try 13 unique routes per year, though some of those will repeat routes done in the opposite direction.
- If you want to keep a points tally, let's keep it simple - 1 point per qualifying ride. Minimum possible qualifying score 13 points in a year and that is what I will be aiming for. The theoretical maximum is a truly LUNATIC 365 points (or 366 in a leap year) but don't be silly!
*** Horsehold Road in Hebden Bridge is a good example. A tough little climb to a hillside hamlet, but the road eventually fizzles out into farm tracks and bridleways.
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Wise not to encourage serious climbs and descents on back ungritted roads.
Quite like this challenge and will modify some of my loops to take in extra climbing. Will be a gradual process until I hit the target. May not achieve it in Jan, but will work towards it.
I've already bought a 34t to replace my 40t (1*10 transmission).
Quite like this challenge and will modify some of my loops to take in extra climbing. Will be a gradual process until I hit the target. May not achieve it in Jan, but will work towards it.
I've already bought a 34t to replace my 40t (1*10 transmission).
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Well you've got rid of the two things I didn't like in the first version: the restriction on using the same road in either direction more than once and the requirement to time rides.
But you've snuck in a new change: instead of "the shortest distance possible" it now has a max of 40km. It's almost as if you're going out of your way to make it geographically exclusive. I think I could probably* do such a route, involving lots of U turns at the tops/bottoms of hills but there will be areas of the country where it is marginal. Why 40km and not 45 ... or 50 ... or "the shortest possible" as you originally had?
* Edit: Yes, I can, just about. 1004m in 39.6km according to RWGPS, including 3 U turns.
Edit(2). This is a useful resource: https://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/p/United-Kingdom/
But you've snuck in a new change: instead of "the shortest distance possible" it now has a max of 40km. It's almost as if you're going out of your way to make it geographically exclusive. I think I could probably* do such a route, involving lots of U turns at the tops/bottoms of hills but there will be areas of the country where it is marginal. Why 40km and not 45 ... or 50 ... or "the shortest possible" as you originally had?
* Edit: Yes, I can, just about. 1004m in 39.6km according to RWGPS, including 3 U turns.
Edit(2). This is a useful resource: https://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/p/United-Kingdom/
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Sea of vapours
Guru
- Location
- Clapham, Yorkshire Dales
With the modified rules, I think I may be 'in' for this, though I very much doubt I'll be doing anything before late March or April (as with the Lunacy Challenge).
40km makes it fairly easy to construct a fair few routes around here, as you know, so I may well try to avoid using precisely the same route twice. This could fit in quite nicely with my intention to do 'shorter routes faster' this year. Hmmm.... then again, doing thirteen different ones will often mean about 50-60km (total), in the bit to/from the start of the loop, so they'll perhaps end up as 'long ride with a really hard bit in the middle' .... !
On @Dogtrousers point: I do think a maximum distance is necessary as otherwise the challenge is just 'do a ride which climbs a thousand metres...' (plus other route rules of course), which can simply be 'long ride in rolling country'. 40km seems a good choice as, even here, 30km / 1,000m is moderately hard to find (though less so with the relaxed road re-use rules perhaps).
40km makes it fairly easy to construct a fair few routes around here, as you know, so I may well try to avoid using precisely the same route twice. This could fit in quite nicely with my intention to do 'shorter routes faster' this year. Hmmm.... then again, doing thirteen different ones will often mean about 50-60km (total), in the bit to/from the start of the loop, so they'll perhaps end up as 'long ride with a really hard bit in the middle' .... !
On @Dogtrousers point: I do think a maximum distance is necessary as otherwise the challenge is just 'do a ride which climbs a thousand metres...' (plus other route rules of course), which can simply be 'long ride in rolling country'. 40km seems a good choice as, even here, 30km / 1,000m is moderately hard to find (though less so with the relaxed road re-use rules perhaps).
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
I'm not sure I entirely agree, because the previous wording was "as short as possible". The only way this could be a long ride in rolling country would be if all there is is rolling country with absolutely no hills at all. As it stands, a maximum distance serves only to limit the number of people who can enter the challenge.
But the point is moot as I live in the wrong area for this kind of thing so I don't feel particularly strongly.
Sea of vapours
Guru
- Location
- Clapham, Yorkshire Dales
Was it ('as short as possible')? I'd forgotten that. Fair enough then: that is certainly wholly inclusive, whilst not being necessarily 'easy' (tricky in The Netherlands for example). I don't have a strong view either and it's up to Colin, but more participants is better than fewer. Perhaps, like the Lunacy Challenge, people could adapt some of the detailed rules so that the challenge if viable for them, and state that in the thread?
OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
What I originally had in mind was an intensely hilly short ride challenge. Pretty much every ride that I do over 50 kms has 1,000+ metres of ascent*** so 40 kms was chosen to be hillier than normal. There wouldn't be much of an intensity challenge in climbing 1,000 m in (say) 100 km.
But I had only been thinking in terms of hilly areas...
[Argh - I am fed up of messing about on my phone. I'll save the draft and come back to this on my laptop later...]
I'm back, with a proper keyboard to type on...
Yes, I should be more inclusive. Obviously this challenge is no use to someone who is way too far from hill country to get the total in but that doesn't mean excluding those riders in areas with some hills!
How about...?
If you live in a hilly area where achieving 1,000 m (3.300 ft) of ascent in a single ride is commonplace, aim to achieve that total in less than 40 km (25 miles) and without repeating climbs in one ride. As an extra challenge, try to do it in the shortest possible distance.
If finding hills is more of a problem for you, just make the effort to achieve the total ascent and ignore the distance constraint, but try not to repeat climbs.
If you are really short of hills then find as many decent climbs as you can and do any combination of them to get the total in, even if that means doing hill repeats.
*** Unless I am on my singlespeed bike and doing an 'avoid the hills' challenge!
But I had only been thinking in terms of hilly areas...
[Argh - I am fed up of messing about on my phone. I'll save the draft and come back to this on my laptop later...]
I'm back, with a proper keyboard to type on...
Yes, I should be more inclusive. Obviously this challenge is no use to someone who is way too far from hill country to get the total in but that doesn't mean excluding those riders in areas with some hills!
How about...?
If you live in a hilly area where achieving 1,000 m (3.300 ft) of ascent in a single ride is commonplace, aim to achieve that total in less than 40 km (25 miles) and without repeating climbs in one ride. As an extra challenge, try to do it in the shortest possible distance.
If finding hills is more of a problem for you, just make the effort to achieve the total ascent and ignore the distance constraint, but try not to repeat climbs.
If you are really short of hills then find as many decent climbs as you can and do any combination of them to get the total in, even if that means doing hill repeats.
*** Unless I am on my singlespeed bike and doing an 'avoid the hills' challenge!
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Don't sweat it - I was just thinking aloud really. As @Sea of vapours says, it's your challenge. I'm kind of regretting having weighed in in the first place. But seeing that I have started I'll finish. I's say something like Devise a route that accumulates 1,000m (X feet) of climb without repeating any climb and which is as short as you can make it. As a benchmark 1,000m (X feet) should be achievable in 40km (Y miles) or less in reasonably hilly areas.
If people ignore this and don't punish themselves sufficiently and log rides with only 1% overall ascent when they live in a mountainous area then they're only cheating themselves.
If people ignore this and don't punish themselves sufficiently and log rides with only 1% overall ascent when they live in a mountainous area then they're only cheating themselves.
OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
Obviously, I could just set myself a private challenge, but if it is going to be a public one then at least it should be achievable and appealing to a reasonable percentage of the cycling public!
Latest version:
I have devised an annual climbing challenge. It will be a sister challenge to the current distance-based Annual Lunacy Challenge, with 13 qualifying rides needed in each calendar year. (I have chosen this format rather than a monthly challenge because I don't want to encourage riders to risk descending what might be steep, ungritted, narrow roads in wintry conditions.)
Do 13 rides on public roads in a calendar year, each accumulating 1,000+ metres of ascent. (If you prefer imperial units, your target is 3,300 ft.).
Keep your routes 'challengingly short'. I live in a hilly area and would normally average about 1,000 metres per 50 km ridden so I will aim to make my qualifying rides shorter than 40 km to make them challenging for me rather than merely routine. Decide for yourself what is challenging for you in your area.
You must end up back at your starting point each time and you are free to start/finish anywhere. Your hilly loops could be included in longer rides so feel free to insert them into your routes for other challenges.
A specific climb may only be done once per ride, but you can climb to the same point by multiple routes if available.
Latest version:
I have devised an annual climbing challenge. It will be a sister challenge to the current distance-based Annual Lunacy Challenge, with 13 qualifying rides needed in each calendar year. (I have chosen this format rather than a monthly challenge because I don't want to encourage riders to risk descending what might be steep, ungritted, narrow roads in wintry conditions.)
Do 13 rides on public roads in a calendar year, each accumulating 1,000+ metres of ascent. (If you prefer imperial units, your target is 3,300 ft.).
Keep your routes 'challengingly short'. I live in a hilly area and would normally average about 1,000 metres per 50 km ridden so I will aim to make my qualifying rides shorter than 40 km to make them challenging for me rather than merely routine. Decide for yourself what is challenging for you in your area.
You must end up back at your starting point each time and you are free to start/finish anywhere. Your hilly loops could be included in longer rides so feel free to insert them into your routes for other challenges.
A specific climb may only be done once per ride, but you can climb to the same point by multiple routes if available.
I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
- Location
- Sunny Ashton-under-Lyne
Think I have accidentally completed my first qualifying ride already on New Year's Day. 3685ft of climbing recorded in just slightly over 51 miles. Considering it was intended to be a flat ride into Cheshire I'm not sure how it happened .
I did pass over Mottram cutting twice, but seeing as how it was not on an out & back route and was approached/exited from differently each time I will allow that.
.I did pass over Mottram cutting twice, but seeing as how it was not on an out & back route and was approached/exited from differently each time I will allow that.
OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
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