"Thank you for listening to my FRED talk."

[Gunk]

I prefer the older stuff because I’m nostalgic and like to ride the bikes I lusted over when I was in my teens, doesn’t mean that they are better than modern bikes, just different.

Here is one of mine, 45 year old frame with 30 year old components, I absolutely love it, makes me feel good every time I ride it, mainly because I built it and its unique, but totally get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

 

[Rusty Nails]

The only issue I have with modern bikes is the lack of compatibility across the various iterations of drive train components, even by the same manufacturer. It seems to me that it is as much market/profit driven as for marginal performance improvement.

Will make tinkering about with older bikes more difficult in years to come.

I love disk brakes.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Will make tinkering about with older bikes more difficult in years to come.

I'm imagining someone saying "I couldn't restore it with period correct parts. I had to fit a modern 17 speed cassette. Those old fashioned 10 speed parts are so hard to find"

 

[Mike Ayling]

Mostly rubbish.

Particularly "Disc brakes that really only exist because rim braking sucks on the carbon rims 95% of people don't
Need".
Disc brakes came about through mountain biking, nothing to do with carbon rims.
Once present for MTB, it was found they imrpoved performance in the wet even on road bikes, without much downside.

There are plentry of people against disc brakes because they add weight and (some people think) complexity. But the adoption of disc brakes has never been about carbon rims.

Yes MTB rims were quickly worn out so disc brakes were a no brainer.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I prefer the older stuff because I’m nostalgic and like to ride the bikes I lusted over when I was in my teens, doesn’t mean that they are better than modern bikes, just different.

Here is one of mine, 45 year old frame with 30 year old components, I absolutely love it, makes me feel good every time I ride it, mainly because I built it and its unique, but totally get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

View attachment 753035

Nice looking bike - my 'first' was a Carlton 10 which was lovely but I wouldn't want to ride it now.

I see some modernity on that bike! So today's tech' can't be all that bad! 🙂

 

[PaulSB]

View: https://x.com/bikesnobnyc/status/1858199452009337072

Any thoughts about the following?

"We destroyed the road bike in 20 years...

"By 1996 we have Dura-Ace 7700. Integrated shifter as good as anything today, or bar-ends and even downtube shifters also available. Came in triple and even worked with MTB derailleurs.

"Brakes are powerful, can be fine-tuned even while riding, and even in short-reach will clear a 28mm tire.

"By early 2000s you have your choice of frames in steel, aluminum, carbon, or titanium--or any combination thereof.

"Also, thanks to those brakes and a decades-old invention called the "quick release," wheel changes took about nine seconds.

"Cranks come in standard, triple, or compact. Stems, headsets, seatposts, etc. were largely cross-compatible between road frames, and even between road and mountain.

"So what have we gained since then?
--Disc brakes that really only exist because rim braking sucks on the carbon rims 95% of people don't
need
--Proprietary cockpits, proprietary bottom brackets, proprietary seatposts, proprietary everything
--Shifters that need to be charged (!)

"Oh, wider rims and tires I guess...which will generally work fine on your 30-year old bike anyway.

"And if course modern road bikes look better...if you are completely insane.

"Thank you for listening to my FRED talk."

I feel it's simply best not to engage with individuals who hold such opinions. I'm not against their views, they have no impact on me, but I do know there is no value to a discussion as they won't be open to entertaining a new idea or accepting some could be beneficial to the majority.

There are "advances" that I would never have. The integrated cockpit being one. Over the years I've changed my "cockpit" (hate this word) around. Fixing it in such a way that it can't be altered in the future seems daft to me. My body today is different today from eight years ago when I bought my Cervelo.

I love to ride gravel. Why? New routes. No traffic. Peace and quiet. We can put together 80-90 mile routes with perhaps 5 miles of tarmac. The bikes I rode 40 years ago wouldn't allow me to do this with confidence or comfort.

The key point is every aspect of "modern" life has moved forward. There's no point in compiling a list, it is literally everything. If we had stood still for the past 30 years where would we be? Certainly not in a better world. Dreaming of the good old '90s is hardly a step back in time.

What my grandchildren see as the norm, yesterday the one year old was swiping a smartphone screen, is all new in my 70 year life. I embrace and enjoy it all, everything that brings me pleasure. Those things i dont need I ignore. I no longer worry about having a 10p, finding a phone and remembering my son's number when I have travel problems getting to his house.

The gentleman's opinion is valid to him and his life. It isn't valid to mine and I wouldn't waste time trying to debate with him.

He is if course using X, a medium I regard as a pointless waste of time. Why isn't he writing to the New York Times? If one is so against technological advance why contribute to filling the pockets of the utterly deplorable Elon Musk?

The guy needs to be consistent. He isn't.

 

[Drago]

We've destroyed medicine. Antibiotics, my arse. I'll stick with leeches, thank you very much.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Ug ug ug ug "language" pah! Ug ug ug

 

[Smokin Joe]

The only issue I have with modern bikes is the lack of compatibility across the various iterations of drive train components, even by the same manufacturer. It seems to me that it is as much market/profit driven as for marginal performance improvement.

I've never really seen the problem. Just buy something that is compatible.

I mean, you wouldn't buy a 600cc Honda and expect the parts off a 1000cc Honda to fit.

 

[slow horse]

Here is one of mine, 45 year old frame with 30 year old components, I absolutely love it, makes me feel good every time I ride it, mainly because I built it and its unique, but totally get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

View attachment 753035

That belongs in the bike envy thread

 

[Rusty Nails]

I've never really seen the problem. Just buy something that is compatible.

I mean, you wouldn't buy a 600cc Honda and expect the parts off a 1000cc Honda to fit.

Of course not, but I am talking about push bikes, which have much simpler mechanics than a Honda motor bike and where the only complex mechanics are the drive train, and possibly hydraulic brakes.

I am no expert on Hondas but I am reasonably sure they are not driven via simple external derailleurs and cranks and powered by human legs. The difference in performance between 250/600/1000 cc bikes are due to the design and component size of the whole mechanical system and not the strength in the legs of the riders. I am deliberately not including the complexities of e-bikes motors/batteries or electronic shifting (even though they are primarily push-bikes with electrical add-ons) as those are not what the overwhelming number of home bike mechanics ride and work

One of the great pleasures I get from bikes (apart from the riding) is the renovation of old bikes and the building up of my own bikes and that is getting more difficult because of the built in incompatibility.

 

[matticus]

[carbon rims being crap with rim brakes:]

Yes MTB rims were quickly worn out so disc brakes were a no brainer.

Sure, but there are roadies who have never owned an MTB, so it's quite feasible that they wanted an upgrade from
"light fast bike that doesn't brake as well as my old one". Luckily for them it synergized nicely with MTB riders wanting the same "better" brakes (that some of their bikes had) on all their bikes.

Manufacturers saw that they could sell the same new stuff to two groups of people at the same time!

I'm not saying this is the whole story, but it does hold water ...

(of course the BEST thing about disc brakes is that on a group ride in the rain, you can't hear a word anyone says approaching junctions ... )

 

[Drago]

None of this globe bollards for me. It's flat earth all the way in my house.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The road bike is a lost cause and has been since 1907 when it was irrevocably ruined by Henri Desgrange who allowed freewheels to be used in that edition of the Tour de France. After that the rot set in - and bikes with multiple gears, brakes that worked and wheel rims made of metal, for goodness sake, were the inevitable and tragic consequence.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Of course not, but I am talking about push bikes, which have much simpler mechanics than a Honda motor bike and where the only complex mechanics are the drive train, and possibly hydraulic brakes.

If manufacturers concentrated on compatibility it would stifle innovation. We wouldn't have cotterless cranks because they don't fit non-cotterless spindles, neither would we have integrated headsets to give just two examples. And just because everything doesn't work with everything else it doesn't mean you can't renovate older bikes, it just takes a bit more effort putting them together.

Just look at any classic bike or car magazine and you will see the for sale columns full of models from the fifties and on that have been restored to full manufacturers spec. What people really mean when they say things were better in my day is that THEY were better in their day and they think that means everything else was too.