Tesla self drive car overtaking cyclists

[gzoom]

Ooh, look at you, you’re so brave

And how do you control how much space a car is going to give you when they overtake you?? Do you have a magical remote control to make them go into the opposite lane??

The point is as much as people on here pontificate about giving cyclists space 90%+ of motorists don't care. So all your doing talking about passing in the opposite lane is just blowing hot air.

The only way to actually ensure cars go into the opposite lane is by having automated cars using software like Tesla is developing.

So tell me what do you do when a car gives you what you would consider a 'close pass', how do you make sure they don't do the same with the next cyclist??

Its not about what we want motorists to do when passing cyclist, its about been realistic at what factors you can control.

So again please tell me if you have a magical solution that makes cars you in the opposite lane .

 

[Ming the Merciless]

And that's the kind of attitude why large number of motorists hate cyclists.

Speak for yourself, most motorists understand they must not go around putting lives in danger as it’s the right thing to do and the sign of competent driver.

 

[mjr]

And that's the kind of attitude why large number of motorists hate cyclists.

No, don't deflect: why shouldn't a car use the other lane wholly instead of partly?

I cycle on real roads, not pretend ones, unless a car is literally brushing past me they have given me enough space.

Why do you hate yourself so? And why do you think all cyclists should share your masochism?

To expect human drivers to move all way into the opposite lane is just pure fantasy.

Why is it "pure fantasy" or "impossible"? They have to wait for the opposite lane to be clear, else they cannot overtake safely, so why not move all the way into it?

Actually if legislation said - a car HAS to move into the opposite lane or give 2 meters space to pass a car, than companies like Tesla will alter their autonomous software to comply.

That seems to be where the UK is heading, with the recently-drafted changes to its Highway Code. Minimum distances are already law in some nearby countries: I wonder if self-driving cars obey there, or maybe they're testing in places that still treat their two-wheeled road users as more expendable.

 

[gzoom]

Why is it "pure fantasy" or "impossible"? They have to wait for the opposite lane to be clear, else they cannot overtake safely, so why not move all the way into it?

So you live in a country where cars only overtake a cyclist if they can go in the opposite lane??

Please tell me where this country is because its certainly not the UK.

 

[Mburton1993]

So you live in a country where cars only overtake a cyclist if they can go in the opposite lane??

Please tell me where this country is because its certainly not the UK.

That’s a fair point, I used to commute into Manchester, during rush hour it’s far too busy to reasonably expect a car to move entirely into the opposite lane to overtake.

 

[Solocle]

Not just brave - balls of iron. His blatant disregard for danger makes me proud to be on the same forum. You know, I bet he wrestles corcodiles in his spare time.

What, like this?

All look further away than that Tesla.

 

[Drago]

That’s a fair point, I used to commute into Manchester, during rush hour it’s far too busy to reasonably expect a car to move entirely into the opposite lane to overtake.

Whether you go 1 foot or the whole car into the other lane it requires that the other lane be clear, so that makes no odds - it requires the same conditions to be able to overtake.

If you can't overtake safely and considerately then you simply shouldn't overtake. There's no divine right to do so regardless of how it may endanger or inconvenience those around you. If thats a problem for you then perhaps you should leave 5 minutes earlier... or take the bike.

 

[DCBassman]

And that's the kind of attitude why large number of motorists hate cyclists.

Cyclists are, AFAIK, entitled to the same space as cars. What IS your problem?

 

[Mburton1993]

Whether you go 1 foot or the whole car into the other lane it requires that the other lane be clear, so that makes no odds - it requires the same conditions to be able to overtake.

If you can't overtake safely and considerately then you simply shouldn't overtake. There's no divine right to do so regardless of how it may endanger or inconvenience those around you. If thats a problem for you then perhaps you should leave 5 minutes earlier... or take the bike.

Apologies, I may have not made it clear in my comment, by commute I mean cycle, I'm not a motorist.

 

[newfhouse]

And how do you control how much space a car is going to give you when they overtake you?? Do you have a magical remote control to make them go into the opposite lane??

When out on country roads the answer is to encourage them to only pass you when it is safe. Often this can be controlled by riding in a sensibly assertive way, using primary position to ensure you are seen as traffic and denying the opportunity for squeezing past. Equally, I will try to read the road and find a suitable place to allow a safe overtake if drivers behind me have been respectful. I’m fortunate that much of my riding is London commuting so I’m usually passing slower traffic.

In practice 1.5 metres is adequate clearance at reasonable vehicle speeds. Your acceptance of passes that just miss your elbow isn’t right in my view.

Maybe I’m lucky, but I find that most drivers are pretty good most of the time as long as my movements are predictable.

 

[mustang1]

If it has to wait for the other lane to be clear, it could and should move completely into the other lane. Passing in lane is wrong on all but the very widest.

That is a good point but on numerous times, if I am driving on a single lane road (one lane in my direction, one lane in opposite direction) and I overtake cyclists, I also move half into the opposing lane rather than completely in it. As long as I give enough space to the cyclists, I am ok with that. In the case of the Tesla video, just because all the lanes are going in the same direction does not mean the car always has to move completely into the other lane.
Having said that, if I'm driving on a two lane road and I see cyclists in left lane, I do move completely onto the right lane to be extra safe. I suppose the Tesla software deemed a half-lane manoeuvre to be safe enough though (which I think it was).

 

[icowden]

no, I'm applying logic and physics. The UK HC rules are pathetic but might improve slightly soon, depending on gov response to a recent consultation.
Decency when driving is decency worldwide.

People don't design things to comply with decency. They design them to comply with laws.
In the US, most states seem to have a law that states that a car shall always leave 3 feet of distance between the right side and the cyclist.
It is therefore likely that the programmers at Tesla have programmed Tesla autopilot to obey those laws.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/safely-passing-bicyclists.aspx#:~:text=The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle traveling in,clear of the overtaken bicycle.

Of course this is one of the many complications of rolling out Autopilot worldwide. The Tesla AI has to understand and comply with motoring laws in many different countries.

@mjr's point about moving wholly into the other lane is perfectly valid, but without legislation, training and enforcement it's unlikely to happen. Therefore I also side with @gzoom in that we have to deal with what *actually* happens rather than what should happen.

On a 40 mile ride last Sunday I was close passed by 5 vehicles, 1 dangerously so. Most cars however gave me about the same distance as the Tesla - the "half lane" pass. A very few did a whole lane pass. There was no reason for any of the cars not to do a whole lane pass, but from the Driver's perspective it looked lke they gave plenty of room, and from my perspective, I was not concerned that my life was in danger, compared to the close passers (one of which was an utter %&^%&^ - I'd have reported that one if I had a camera on).

On two occasions I was on narrow single track roads where I held up a car. On both of those occasions the motorist was cheerful and waited for me to find a little bit of space where I could pull over and let them past. I didn't have to do that of course, but for me, I'd rather let the motorist past and have a less stressful cycle.

 

[mjr]

Do posters here accept that a half lane pass is more risky than a full lane pass?

It may take a bizarre spill for a cyclist on a straight road to fall into the path of a car passing five feet away, but it would be an even rarer one to be in the next lane, so why risk it? It just seems like lazy driving, increasing the risk to the rider because one can't be bothered turning the steering wheel a little more.

 

[matticus]

gzoom said:
"cyclists need insurance and regulating like driver do"

Don't you understand why drivers need to be insured and regulated as they are? (And why cyclists don't?)

And what about pedestrians @gzoom ? Should they carry full documentation? Is it OK to drive up on the pavement and flatten the odd one if they don't?

 

[Jody]

None, but I don't moan about 'close passes'. If cyclists want to moan about drivers than cyclists need insurance and regulating like driver do. I cycle as much as I drive these days, so lets not pretend cyclists are some how 'more entitled' to be on the road than drivers. Why should a car move all the way over because some cyclists are taking up road space?

Are you for real