Team BKool CycleChat

[peterob]

At 6W/Kg Zada would of kicked in and disqualified you. It requires real world proof of 5mins @ 6W/kg

I'm going to take a guess....Zada = Zwift Anti Doping Association?

 

[CXRAndy]

I'm going to take a guess....Zada = Zwift Anti Doping Association?

I'm not overly familiar with it. I will never be on their radar It compares results against known criteria, right up to elite/ professional level. If a rider has anomalies in their result stats, excessive W/Kg, odd HR, excessive power and even height, then they are flagged. If the rider provides a number of real world results with power, speed and HR, then their indoor results will be accepted. If a rider doesn't provide evidence, then after, I think 3 flagged results, will be disqualified from all race results. Virtually all Zwift races now require Power, HR in each race. The odd rider who still uses 'Virtual' power are filtered out of results. I expect it to get tighter in the future.

Zwiftpower isn't affiliated with Zada, but use their information. Zwift racing results appear instantly after the race with a 'live' table. Then after a few minutes usually(especially for big events like UK National Championships) a corrected table of positions and stats. Zwift power then create a league of each category rider A,B,C,D so you can track your own results and stats over months of racing.

https://zwiftinsider.com/zada/
Being among the first to be approved, elite mountain-biker Kim Little (Team X) explains how it went: “The ZADA testing procedure was pain free… relatively! The process involved submitting a number of IRL ride data files for some recent rides I had done. Luckily, I had just completed some 10m time trials and hill climbs which were perfect to send to the team, who then analysed the files and cross-referenced with my Zwift numbers. I use the same PM in Zwift and IRL, so I was confident the numbers were good. Ultimately, I am glad that ZADA agreed and gave me a shiny star to confirm.”

Eg Bob, Lee and I placed outside the top 100 in the event. But filtered results disqualified more than 15 riders who either didn't have HR monitors or some other anomaly in their results, So we dropped into the top 100

Another example @LBHIFI His live result was 68th, but was corrected to 51st place after Zada It looks like dozens were disqualified in the Danish National championship.

The Cyclechat riders on Zwift are very closely ranked mainly, Paul being one of the top riders. Dave Ranson is by far the best rider ranking in the top 31 in category A.

@bridgy your FTP is estimated within Zwiftpower whilst mine, Bobs and everyone who uses a power meter is not estimated. So even ZP have noticed bkool pro possibly?

This rider yesterday was disqualified for no HR, but there is something a little odd about his results. The only one where he had an HR monitor produced an W/Kg of 3.1 for a short race and yet he recorded 3.7 for the UK Championships. His category results are jumping about aswell.

 

[AAAC 76C]

It looks like dozens were disqualified in the Danish National championship.

Any of thier Nations Cup team per chance?

 

[peterob]

I'm not overly familiar with it. I will never be on their radar It compares results against known criteria, right up to elite/ professional level. If a rider has anomalies in their result stats, excessive W/Kg, odd HR, excessive power and even height, then they are flagged. If the rider provides a number of real world results with power, speed and HR, then their indoor results will be accepted. If a rider doesn't provide evidence, then after, I think 3 flagged results, will be disqualified from all race results. Virtually all Zwift races now require Power, HR in each race. The odd rider who still uses 'Virtual' power are filtered out of results. I expect it to get tighter in the future.

Zwiftpower isn't affiliated with Zada, but use their information. Zwift racing results appear instantly after the race with a 'live' table. Then after a few minutes usually(especially for big events like UK National Championships) a corrected table of positions and stats. Zwift power then create a league of each category rider A,B,C,D so you can track your own results and stats over months of racing.

https://zwiftinsider.com/zada/
Being among the first to be approved, elite mountain-biker Kim Little (Team X) explains how it went: “The ZADA testing procedure was pain free… relatively! The process involved submitting a number of IRL ride data files for some recent rides I had done. Luckily, I had just completed some 10m time trials and hill climbs which were perfect to send to the team, who then analysed the files and cross-referenced with my Zwift numbers. I use the same PM in Zwift and IRL, so I was confident the numbers were good. Ultimately, I am glad that ZADA agreed and gave me a shiny star to confirm.”

Eg Bob, Lee and I placed outside the top 100 in the event. But filtered results disqualified more than 15 riders who either didn't have HR monitors or some other anomaly in their results, So we dropped into the top 100

Another example @LBHIFI His live result was 68th, but was corrected to 51st place after Zada It looks like dozens were disqualified in the Danish National championship.

The Cyclechat riders on Zwift are very closely ranked mainly, Paul being one of the top riders. Dave Ranson is by far the best rider ranking in the top 31 in category A.

@bridgy your FTP is estimated within Zwiftpower whilst mine, Bobs and everyone who uses a power meter is not estimated. So even ZP have noticed bkool pro possibly?

This rider yesterday was disqualified for no HR, but there is something a little odd about his results. The only one where he had an HR monitor produced an W/Kg of 3.1 for a short race and yet he recorded 3.7 for the UK Championships. His category results are jumping about aswell.
View attachment 397306

Thanks for the comprehensive info Andy

I've never tried Zwift but it does seem that the platform is a lot more serious about maintaining sensible ride data and rejecting rides that seem abnormal. I'm not really too interested in serious training/racing, and I suppose if I was I would use a 'proper' power meter and a less flakey platform than Bkool. I really only use Bkool in the winter and it gives me what I need, essentially a fun way of keeping me on the bike in the evenings until spring comes back round - although the Bkool bugs and the inconsistent power/performance I've been experiencing is frustrating . I'd like to think I'll keep on the Cyclechat Bkool rides this summer though, particularly if the handicap rides continue on a Tuesday.

 

[Brusgaard]

Any of thier Nations Cup team per chance?

AFAIK, none of the Danish NC riders use Zwift regularly.

 

[CXRAndy]

AFAIK, none of the Danish NC riders use Zwift regularly.

I think some of them would be disappointed

 

[Brusgaard]

This rider yesterday was disqualified for no HR, but there is something a little odd about his results. The only one where he had an HR monitor produced an W/Kg of 3.1 for a short race and yet he recorded 3.7 for the UK Championships. His category results are jumping about aswell.
View attachment 397306

Maybe he used another trainer? I did one test run on Zwift using my Bkool, and since then all of them has been on my Direto. Needless to say, you can not compare rides done on one trainer to one done on another. MAYBE if you use a real power meter, but still no direct comparison would be possible. Also the ridden route/track has a lot to say.

 

[CXRAndy]

Maybe he used another trainer? I did one test run on Zwift using my Bkool, and since then all of them has been on my Direto. Needless to say, you can not compare rides done on one trainer to one done on another. MAYBE if you use a real power meter, but still no direct comparison would be possible. Also the ridden route/track has a lot to say.

The 'proper' power meter is key. Zwift use power to calculate speed. If you use a poor quality trainer then results cannot be trusted or consistent. A decent power meter or trainer with pm built in for Zwift

Is this you ?

 

[CXRAndy]

The Elite Direto https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/09/elite-direto-trainer-in-depth-review.html

Very positive review

 

[<Tommy>]

Thanks for the comprehensive info Andy

I've never tried Zwift but it does seem that the platform is a lot more serious about maintaining sensible ride data and rejecting rides that seem abnormal. I'm not really too interested in serious training/racing, and I suppose if I was I would use a 'proper' power meter and a less flakey platform than Bkool. I really only use Bkool in the winter and it gives me what I need, essentially a fun way of keeping me on the bike in the evenings until spring comes back round - although the Bkool bugs and the inconsistent power/performance I've been experiencing is frustrating . I'd like to think I'll keep on the Cyclechat Bkool rides this summer though, particularly if the handicap rides continue on a Tuesday.

I go backwards and forwards on this, and it seems to be what largely creates the divide between the guys here who prefer one platform to the other. I have to say I think on the whole I share your outlook.

I don’t know if any of you guys are interested in football but bare with me...The guy who used to run the show, the now disgraced sepp blatter, argued that the introduction of video replays to help refereeing decisions would ruin the game. His argument was that bad decisions were part of the fabric, and gave people something to talk about on a Monday morning. Now if you like football this outlook is bloody infuriating as bad decisions can hurt really badly. So why not avoid them if at all possible!

But Maybe in BKOOL land the bad decisions do actually add something to the fabric. So maybe BKOOL are following the sepp blatter trail of thought! All of us know BKOOL is quirky to say the least... and the watts are not only generous, but quite inconsistent. But this does actually add something to the experience. It stops us from taking it too seriously. You can’t take it too seriously because you don’t know when your ability stops and where BKOOL generosity starts!

It seems like a lot of the zwift riders find it very hard to understand why people stick with BKOOL. But that is the main difference between the two platforms in my eyes. Zwift, because the power figures are much more accurate. It inherently becomes more serious. You only have to look at the two sub forums to see that to be honest. That isn’t a dig at either one. It’s just you see a lot more technical talk / analysis in the zwift forum. And a lot more fun and banter in this one. Because it is impossible to take BKOOL as serious unless your completely delusional. BKOOL, for all its faults. And more by luck than judgement. Have kept racing at a level that suits the guys who still race on it. Hence why they stay. And zwift offers s platform for the guys who want to race on a more accurate platform.

I have a foot in both camps. I have a powermeter on my road bike and I find it really useful. But there’s a reason I can’t say goodbye to BKOOL just yet.

 

[CXRAndy]

. But there’s a reason I can’t say goodbye to BKOOL just yet.

I've one more ride on Bkool and then it goes back to my relative.

 

[CXRAndy]

I go backwards and forwards on this, and it seems to be what largely creates the divide between the guys here who prefer one platform to the other. I have to say I think on the whole I share your outlook.

I don’t know if any of you guys are interested in football but bare with me...The guy who used to run the show, the now disgraced sepp blatter, argued that the introduction of video replays to help refereeing decisions would ruin the game. His argument was that bad decisions were part of the fabric, and gave people something to talk about on a Monday morning. Now if you like football this outlook is bloody infuriating as bad decisions can hurt really badly. So why not avoid them if at all possible!

But Maybe in BKOOL land the bad decisions do actually add something to the fabric. So maybe BKOOL are following the sepp blatter trail of thought! All of us know BKOOL is quirky to say the least... and the watts are not only generous, but quite inconsistent. But this does actually add something to the experience. It stops us from taking it too seriously. You can’t take it too seriously because you don’t know when your ability stops and where BKOOL generosity starts!

It seems like a lot of the zwift riders find it very hard to understand why people stick with BKOOL. But that is the main difference between the two platforms in my eyes. Zwift, because the power figures are much more accurate. It inherently becomes more serious. You only have to look at the two sub forums to see that to be honest. That isn’t a dig at either one. It’s just you see a lot more technical talk / analysis in the zwift forum. And a lot more fun and banter in this one. Because it is impossible to take BKOOL as serious unless your completely delusional. BKOOL, for all its faults. And more by luck than judgement. Have kept racing at a level that suits the guys who still race on it. Hence why they stay. And zwift offers s platform for the guys who want to race on a more accurate platform.

I have a foot in both camps. I have a powermeter on my road bike and I find it really useful. But there’s a reason I can’t say goodbye to BKOOL just yet.

Tommy for me it's the inconsistency of the results. I don't really mind the wildly exaggerated power numbers. But I can't accept the result was due to increased fitness or just Bkool decided to make it easier that ride.

 

[Brusgaard]

The 'proper' power meter is key. Zwift use power to calculate speed. If you use a poor quality trainer then results cannot be trusted or consistent. A decent power meter or trainer with pm built in for Zwift

Is this you ? View attachment 397312

Yes. The Bkool ride however, was not a race, just me spinning around setting all sorts of record times, that has since been unreachable on my Direto.

 

[bobinski]

I go backwards and forwards on this, and it seems to be what largely creates the divide between the guys here who prefer one platform to the other. I have to say I think on the whole I share your outlook.

I don’t know if any of you guys are interested in football but bare with me...The guy who used to run the show, the now disgraced sepp blatter, argued that the introduction of video replays to help refereeing decisions would ruin the game. His argument was that bad decisions were part of the fabric, and gave people something to talk about on a Monday morning. Now if you like football this outlook is bloody infuriating as bad decisions can hurt really badly. So why not avoid them if at all possible!

But Maybe in BKOOL land the bad decisions do actually add something to the fabric. So maybe BKOOL are following the sepp blatter trail of thought! All of us know BKOOL is quirky to say the least... and the watts are not only generous, but quite inconsistent. But this does actually add something to the experience. It stops us from taking it too seriously. You can’t take it too seriously because you don’t know when your ability stops and where BKOOL generosity starts!

It seems like a lot of the zwift riders find it very hard to understand why people stick with BKOOL. But that is the main difference between the two platforms in my eyes. Zwift, because the power figures are much more accurate. It inherently becomes more serious. You only have to look at the two sub forums to see that to be honest. That isn’t a dig at either one. It’s just you see a lot more technical talk / analysis in the zwift forum. And a lot more fun and banter in this one. Because it is impossible to take BKOOL as serious unless your completely delusional. BKOOL, for all its faults. And more by luck than judgement. Have kept racing at a level that suits the guys who still race on it. Hence why they stay. And zwift offers s platform for the guys who want to race on a more accurate platform.

I have a foot in both camps. I have a powermeter on my road bike and I find it really useful. But there’s a reason I can’t say goodbye to BKOOL just yet.

Gawd, I had to get a cup of tea midway through that just so I could finish it

Not sure something being more accurate and reliable makes it more serious. Not sure either that your thesis explains why such a huge number of competitive Danes , who with some honourable exceptions sensibly avoid these fora, choose bkool over Zwift.
Perhaps they have an equivalent forum where they all take the P and offer excuses too?

 

[Brusgaard]

Yes. The Bkool ride however, was not a race, just me spinning around setting all sorts of record times, that has since been unreachable on my Direto.

Well, It seems it has been almost a month since my last Zwift race, and I don't even think I've used it for training either. Far too many Bkool races with 1 on Tuesday and Wednesday, 2 on Thursdays and then 1 or 2 on Saturdays followed by the final one Sunday morning.

It would be really easy to swap between the Direto (for Zwift'ing) and the Bkool for Bkool-races. But as you can see in the picture, my pain cave/shed is pretty cramped up, thus it being a bit of a hassle.