Team BKool CycleChat

[<Tommy>]

I tried Zwift - I gave it 3 months. It was dull in comparison to BKool. Same courses all the time, no real way to compare progress, can't race my online friends, can't send @Brusgaard , I mean other Zwift riders, an email telling them I've beat them, can choose the style of ride (hill, velo, flat, descent) as with Zwift you get what you are given. Zwift is OK if training for something like the DD and you want a few hours of uninterupted cycling but that is all I found positive about it. For me, BKool as a platform is far superior in its offering, it's just the company that is lacking.

Zwift have offered me free kms of cycling each month to try and tempt me back, and I can't even be tempted to ride on there when it's free. For all BKools faults it will continue to get my money until another platform can prove to offer something better.

As for the turbos and differences. I don't mind small errors, but the ELITEs are currently way, way out. I'm pretty sure Zwift isn't an even playing field either across turbos, but then again in the real world we are rarely on an even playing field. I ride an inexpensive Boardman, TT rides a featherlike superbike Faster tyres, electronic gears, lighter bikes, aero wheels etc etc all give advantages in the real world, could be as much as 5-10% but that's life.

I don't mind that TT is faster that me in the real world, and think his superbike gives him too much advantage over my Halfords special ... I just think, as he pulls away, he'll be taking the wrong turn anyway and will still end up behind me

Eh?!

Cheeky bugger

I seem to remember overtaking you EVEN after taking a 15 mile detour in Wales, so I'm not entirely sure that tactic will work in your favour Whorty!

For what it's worth tyre choice and pressure can make such a difference in bkool it highlights that your far better trying to control your own variables to measure improvement and only compare yourselves to others with a pinch of salt.

 

[bridgy]

Eh?!

Cheeky bugger

I seem to remember overtaking you EVEN after taking a 15 mile detour in Wales, so I'm not entirely sure that tactic will work in your favour Whorty!

For what it's worth tyre choice and pressure can make such a difference in bkool it highlights that your far better trying to control your own variables to measure improvement and only compare yourselves to others with a pinch of salt.

This is true, and it's why even Zwift - who do a much better job of trying to equalise trainers and are much more open about it - can't make a completely level playing field, particularly with the non direct drive trainers without power meters like the bkool. They have to set their algorithm for a particular tyre and pressure, and so if a rider uses a more beneficial tyre/pressure setup they will go faster than they should - and vice versa. I don't really see any way around this.

I think most of us are happy to accept some variance and don't expect perfection - I know I am! But let's not lose sight of what we're talking about, which is those absolutely ridiculous results in the summer cup on elite trainers - they are WAY beyond acceptable margins of error and sadly it highlights once again the amateurish way bkool is run, despite the many positives of basic system.

Actually it's quite good that those results are so OTT as it makes the situation so obvious to everyone rather than a sneaky, subtle advantage - and so really quite amusing!

 

[CXRAndy]

Carl, it really is very close across multiple trainers/power meters. If you assess the Zwift power results, you can see how close the numbers are and the recorded times, speeds, these all very realistic and match real outdoor riding.

Zwift is built on reading power, they have gone to some length to add non power trainers with a profile curve to closely match power based trainer. It has a huge investment behind them, that is why it is so popular, issues are quickly remedied.

I understand the comment about lack of variety, but there are multiple routes each week, maybe if you were riding same route several times a week then it certainly could be monotonous. I use it maybe twice a week so the variety never becomes boring to me. Using similar routes has an advantage that you can see if your PBs are improving(like you do on outdoor rides). To be honest I tend not to really notice the course detail, other than gradient when racing. I am literally immersed in the action of staying with the pack, covering pace changes, trying to draft etc. Scenery is secondary to racing. Slightly different if you're on a training ride, then RGT and Big Ring are alot more attractive to use with their HD video routes.

 

[<Tommy>]

This is true, and it's why even Zwift - who do a much better job of trying to equalise trainers and are much more open about it - can't make a completely level playing field, particularly with the non direct drive trainers without power meters like the bkool. They have to set their algorithm for a particular tyre and pressure, and so if a rider uses a more beneficial tyre/pressure setup they will go faster than they should - and vice versa. I don't really see any way around this.

I think most of us are happy to accept some variance and don't expect perfection - I know I am! But let's not lose sight of what we're talking about, which is those absolutely ridiculous results in the summer cup on elite trainers - they are WAY beyond acceptable margins of error and sadly it highlights once again the amateurish way bkool is run, despite the many positives of basic system.

Actually it's quite good that those results are so OTT as it makes the situation so obvious to everyone rather than a sneaky, subtle advantage - and so really quite amusing!

Agreed

I think unless we all have the same direct drive trainer the variance can be pretty huge

Ironically lots of my pb's on Strava are still from my 17 year old aluminium cannondale frame, not my snazzy carbon "super bike". The difference between 2kg on a bike isn't that much when the rider weighs 40x more than that... I think the margin of variation is far wider on the turbo where I can get +\- 75watts depending on tyre pressure (conservative guesstimate).

 

[rob01792]

My points exactly! Oh, and I hope you liked my e-mail today?

I did
I took it as a complement that u added my ghost

 

[berty bassett]

i must admit , when i am on zwift in cartoon world i dont really notice the course as much as the carrot in front - the same bloke in red trousers and grey shirt waves in each race !
when i was in bkool in cartoon world i didnt notice the course as much as the carrot in front - its good to see if the carrot is doing more w/kg / catchable
i wouldnt mind bkool if everyone was on the same playing field
at the end of the day it is a competition and little things matter - if they didnt then we wouldnt be putting 140psi in and using different tyres !
i dont think even each bkool machine would give the same read out
in zwift i feel its more level - when i get beat , i know i have been fairly thrashed because they are better than me on the day

 

[Whorty]

Did a quick Google search of "Zwift vs Bkool" to see what popped up. There is a thread on Bike radar worth looking at. Post number 4 has a guy raving about Bkool and clearly likes it better than Zwift (looks like he's a bit of a numpty though as he messed up post number 3 ). I think this chap must know what he's talking about so worth a read

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13040099

 

[Brusgaard]

I did
I took it as a complement that u added my ghost

I just Challenged Whorty's ride. You were in front the first couple of hundred meters, before I took the front. I kept that the next 18 km, before I started my slow down, and going from an average 315w down to 250w, losing 5+ minutes and finishing in 12th spot. Didn't see @Whorty at all during the race, but he came across the line a minute or so after me.

 

[<Tommy>]

The same bloke in red trousers and grey shirt waves in each race !

Bloody hell zwift have even roped in Father Christmas!?!



I'll get my coat.....

 

[CXRAndy]

Carl wasn't that before the updates, blue numbers, 700w off the start at 1.5mph then the dreaded dead stop problem to overcome this bug.
2015 long time in software.
I must admit having the option to train on a road or hill that you might ride in an event is by far their best feature. But as with everything something better comes along and two have RGT and Big Ring. They will steal away Bkools prize feature with superior video's/graphics. Which will be the winner, who knows. I think Zwift is at the moment too big to knock off the top spot,.
If a platform merged Zwift quality/ racing, Bkool routes, leagues with Big Ring videos then they would be onto a probable winner.

Remember Nintendo, Xbox, ZX spectrum. New platforms will come along with better features.

 

[theboxers]

Well that's my SC8 done. I fell like Biff Tannen, gravel roads, Gravel Roads!!! I hate gravel roads . Bkool seem to have gone out of their way to choose non tarmac or very poor tarmac roads and as a result the speed to power is way down .

Oh well CG4 tomorrow

 

[AAAC 76C]

and so if a rider uses a more beneficial tyre/pressure setup they will go faster than they should - and vice versa

The benefit of a low rolling resistance on a perfect surface, ie high tyre pressure, is very real and cannot be simulated by a direct drive trainer.
In fact if BKool put a power meter in the roller it would, for realitys sake, be more accurate than direct drive.
If you are only interested in measuring your performance increase you would best be measuring power at the pedals as the rest is mechanics and product quality.
So if like me you are in it for fun and fitness who gives a stuff if Zwift is more accurate or if someone's Elite Trainer gives weird results on BKool or if Pepes rides often look a bit suspect (but we are pretty sure he is an excellent endurance athlete).
For me I have always (of late) chosen Jacob as my benchmark as he is consistent and his data always looks real.
So if I beat him going uphill because he is 20kg heavier than me an he smashes me on downhill course because he has power and Mass on his side the world is good, I am still alive and fit and we have a lot of fun talking about it all afterwards.

 

[Daddy Pig]

Bkool sent me the following....
Hey Andrew, we've seen this and we know what the problem is. We're fixing this ASAP. Thanks for the notice
At least they are looking for a fix, but not sure they will do anything with existing results...

 

[bridgy]

Bkool sent me the following....
Hey Andrew, we've seen this and we know what the problem is. We're fixing this ASAP. Thanks for the notice
At least they are looking for a fix, but not sure they will do anything with existing results...

To be fair that's WAY better than their responses to similar things previously - I wonder if it has anything to do with having to explain themselves to a sponsor as well now!

 

[Bored Man]

Did Andrew post it on to you @Daddy Pig ?