Taking over the bike shop...
- Thread starter Andy in Germany
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
OP
OP
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
I'll sell that at auction...
Oldhippy
Cynical idealist
I'll pay postage. 😁
classic33
Leg End Member
I'll buy, and pay first class postage.
OP
OP
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
Looks like the auction has started already and I don't even have a Rohloff yet...
Last edited:
Oldhippy
Cynical idealist
I'll buy, pay first class postage and send you chocolates.
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
At this rate, you'll all be wining and dining him next... 
classic33
Leg End Member
"Next time"!At this rate, you'll all be wining and dining him next...
Is there something been done already?
I think a large jar of Marmite may sweeten any deal.
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
Never said about there being a next time...
I'm just forecasting where this current (or should that be currant) bun fight might be heading... 
OP
OP
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
I'm getting more of that pushback; this time it's because I'm ordering "too much". I suspect this is partly related to the stress everyone is feeling because of the upcoming health and safety inspection but it's getting a bit wearing; the most recent was a comment about "We're a second hand shop; none of the other departments order anything, you know" which was in response to me asking if I could buy a dustpan and brush as I'd just had to search the entire building (again) to get one to clean the workshop.
To be fair the person concerned then found some spares from somewhere so we at least can clean the floor, but equally I know that the "no other department buys anything" is at the very least being economical with the truth, because the cafe, for example, is not selling second hand food. Also, these people haven't a clue about bicycle maintenance and have happily watched the bike department send out all manner of dodgy bikes.
I'm also aware this is my first "management" job; if I had management experience I'd be a lot less bothered by this, but it is beginning to wear me down, so this post is part a request for feedback, part an attempt to get my thoughts together.
I've just gone through my invoices since I arrived and mostly what I've ordered is consumables like chains, brakes, and cables. Before I do battle on this front I thought I'd better check that I'm not spending too much ion unnecessary items, I know several people here work in similar shops to mine so it would be interesting to see what your experiences are...
So far my main expenses seem to be in three categories plus one that is my "fault":
1: Tools.
I've inherited a rag bag of tools, some good, some cheap and some worn out. As I used my own tools for several weeks before being told to order replacements I don't think I need to defend decisions there. I even decided against suggestions from the Boss to replace all four maintenance stands at a cost of ca. 600€ each. Bearing in mind the stand I use is currently held up by a pagoda base, you can imagine what state they are in...
2: Consumables:
This is the one I'd appreciate feedback on.
Brakes and cables: At the moment I'm probably replacing about 50% of brakes and cables on bikes. I'd be happier replacing them all, but that's a battle for when I'm turning more of a profit. Right now I replace cables which are clearly broken, rusty, frayed, or don't run freely. I recently stocked up on these because I didn't want more supply issues as they are mostly made in Taiwan.
Inner tubes: I am replacing tubes instead of patching them because I can't be sure the patch will hold. Also, I'm insisting that both valves on a bike should be the same. This means I'm also generally replacing 50% of tubes.
Chains and cassettes: The way I learned was that if a chain tool (Another tool I had to buy because we didn't have any) fits on the 0.75mm side of the tool, the chain is worn and could be due for replacement; if it fits on the 1.00mm side then it is probably wearing the cassette as well and should in any case be replaced. As the shop didn't have such a tool before I suspect they've been sending bikes out with badly worn chains. I've been replacing cassettes if the chain is worn over 1.0mm because I suspect it's probably nearly worn out, but maybe I should test the bike first to see if the chain slips.
Dynamo systems: These are pretty common here and they're great until they don't work. Often it's down to the wires between the front and rear lights. We have a tester that beeps if it detects a circuit; only problem is the tester has an intermittent contact. (Yes, you read that right) I want to get a new tester and set up an "Electronics kit" with tester, plugs, wires et c, because that will save hours of swearing. At the moment I tend to replace old wires because most faults seem to be related to them.
Also, I've been building up a stock of things like chains, cassettes and inner tubes, especially as I had an entire box of "new" tubes that kept bursting.
I'm building a system so that at the end of the month I can show where these parts are being used, and that we're getting the money back, but that will take time.
3: Specific parts missing from bikes.
I have ordered things like a new BB for an otherwise perfectly good bike that was sitting in the store and subsequently sold within days. At the time all the BB's were in a big box separated front heir tensioning rings. At the moment a bike is waiting for a chain guard; the guards in store were dumped on a shelf without any of the supporting hangers, screws et c so even the unbroken ones are useless. Some of this will improve: eventually: the BB's will be sorted by size and marked accordingly, for example, but I'm limited to what I can do there.
The other category is things I order which I've since found I don't really need because I already have them in the store, buried under a lot of other things. This is partly experience and partly improving as I get better organised (which is a point I can make when people tell me to "stop worrying about organising the shop and just fix bikes": an organised shop wastes less. Equally, lights and brake handles don't go mouldy so I'll use them.
I'm finding the general situaion rather stressful, so I'm trying to see how to deal with it. My current thought is to figure a plan to reduce the "problem" and communicate this.
The Plan would be:
1: Organise the workshop better
2: Repair bikes in pairs: take two bikes with similar gear systems and setup, and cannibalise one for the other. I'm not sure how well this will work because there's 1001 possible variations. Even in a best case scenario it would mean that I dismantle a bike I can potentially sell to save paying 20€ for a chain guard, but it may be better as a short term solution. It's also a job I can subcontract to a less skilled client, and it would speed up the clearing out of the workshop.
3: Suggest we sit together and go through every invoice and explain every purchase. I doubt I'll need to do this, but it shows I'm not hiding anything.
4: Next time someone starts complaining about "spending too much money" ask them to be specific and offer to do #3 with them.
Any thoughts? Thanks for your time...
To be fair the person concerned then found some spares from somewhere so we at least can clean the floor, but equally I know that the "no other department buys anything" is at the very least being economical with the truth, because the cafe, for example, is not selling second hand food. Also, these people haven't a clue about bicycle maintenance and have happily watched the bike department send out all manner of dodgy bikes.
I'm also aware this is my first "management" job; if I had management experience I'd be a lot less bothered by this, but it is beginning to wear me down, so this post is part a request for feedback, part an attempt to get my thoughts together.
I've just gone through my invoices since I arrived and mostly what I've ordered is consumables like chains, brakes, and cables. Before I do battle on this front I thought I'd better check that I'm not spending too much ion unnecessary items, I know several people here work in similar shops to mine so it would be interesting to see what your experiences are...
So far my main expenses seem to be in three categories plus one that is my "fault":
1: Tools.
I've inherited a rag bag of tools, some good, some cheap and some worn out. As I used my own tools for several weeks before being told to order replacements I don't think I need to defend decisions there. I even decided against suggestions from the Boss to replace all four maintenance stands at a cost of ca. 600€ each. Bearing in mind the stand I use is currently held up by a pagoda base, you can imagine what state they are in...
2: Consumables:
This is the one I'd appreciate feedback on.
Brakes and cables: At the moment I'm probably replacing about 50% of brakes and cables on bikes. I'd be happier replacing them all, but that's a battle for when I'm turning more of a profit. Right now I replace cables which are clearly broken, rusty, frayed, or don't run freely. I recently stocked up on these because I didn't want more supply issues as they are mostly made in Taiwan.
Inner tubes: I am replacing tubes instead of patching them because I can't be sure the patch will hold. Also, I'm insisting that both valves on a bike should be the same. This means I'm also generally replacing 50% of tubes.
Chains and cassettes: The way I learned was that if a chain tool (Another tool I had to buy because we didn't have any) fits on the 0.75mm side of the tool, the chain is worn and could be due for replacement; if it fits on the 1.00mm side then it is probably wearing the cassette as well and should in any case be replaced. As the shop didn't have such a tool before I suspect they've been sending bikes out with badly worn chains. I've been replacing cassettes if the chain is worn over 1.0mm because I suspect it's probably nearly worn out, but maybe I should test the bike first to see if the chain slips.
Dynamo systems: These are pretty common here and they're great until they don't work. Often it's down to the wires between the front and rear lights. We have a tester that beeps if it detects a circuit; only problem is the tester has an intermittent contact. (Yes, you read that right) I want to get a new tester and set up an "Electronics kit" with tester, plugs, wires et c, because that will save hours of swearing. At the moment I tend to replace old wires because most faults seem to be related to them.
Also, I've been building up a stock of things like chains, cassettes and inner tubes, especially as I had an entire box of "new" tubes that kept bursting.
I'm building a system so that at the end of the month I can show where these parts are being used, and that we're getting the money back, but that will take time.
3: Specific parts missing from bikes.
I have ordered things like a new BB for an otherwise perfectly good bike that was sitting in the store and subsequently sold within days. At the time all the BB's were in a big box separated front heir tensioning rings. At the moment a bike is waiting for a chain guard; the guards in store were dumped on a shelf without any of the supporting hangers, screws et c so even the unbroken ones are useless. Some of this will improve: eventually: the BB's will be sorted by size and marked accordingly, for example, but I'm limited to what I can do there.
The other category is things I order which I've since found I don't really need because I already have them in the store, buried under a lot of other things. This is partly experience and partly improving as I get better organised (which is a point I can make when people tell me to "stop worrying about organising the shop and just fix bikes": an organised shop wastes less. Equally, lights and brake handles don't go mouldy so I'll use them.
I'm finding the general situaion rather stressful, so I'm trying to see how to deal with it. My current thought is to figure a plan to reduce the "problem" and communicate this.
The Plan would be:
1: Organise the workshop better
2: Repair bikes in pairs: take two bikes with similar gear systems and setup, and cannibalise one for the other. I'm not sure how well this will work because there's 1001 possible variations. Even in a best case scenario it would mean that I dismantle a bike I can potentially sell to save paying 20€ for a chain guard, but it may be better as a short term solution. It's also a job I can subcontract to a less skilled client, and it would speed up the clearing out of the workshop.
3: Suggest we sit together and go through every invoice and explain every purchase. I doubt I'll need to do this, but it shows I'm not hiding anything.
4: Next time someone starts complaining about "spending too much money" ask them to be specific and offer to do #3 with them.
Any thoughts? Thanks for your time...
OP
OP
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
Only once, believe me...
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
Andy, first things first.
Who is the "someone" and who are "some people"?
Are these in the chain of command?
If they are not then my advice is to develop tactics to either ignore them or shut them up.
If they are management then an explanation is needed and a discussion on the standards of bikes that you will be selling.
Now, here's the thing. You may find yourself having to compromise so my suggestion is to prepare well for any discussion, preferably with examples. For instance take a bike and explain the issues with chains, cassettes and cables.
As regards your specific questions:
Tools: They should be the best you can afford. Anything else is false economics
Consumables:
Cables: Damaged or frayed should be replaced. Sticky or gunky may be cleanable. What about the outers?
Tubes: I agree absolutely about matching valves but don't understand the reluctance to use patches. All.my tubes are patched, often several times
Chains & cassettes:
You need a chain wear tool!! That is just a simple example for any discussion on standards. The fact that you bought your own is only relevant to the point that you don't have all you need.
As for cassettes (and I am far from an expert) some people can judge the life in a cassette by looking at it. Yes, a worn chain might have worn it more but there may well be a lot of life in it yet. Selective reuse could save €s.
Dynamo systems: Again, you need a proper tool. It's basic arithmetic. Is there a source for cheap wire? Perhaps I'm wrong but I can't see that as being expensive?
The stock you are building up, is that new or recycled? If new do "the people" understand that the stock is waiting to be used and to add value?
Specific parts: if you need them you need them. However, do you really need them? Is the bike functional and safe without them? Or can you price the bike without (eg chain guard) and on the tag offer a price including the chain guard?
Don't worry about the things bought that are not needed right now. We've seen some of the pictures of what you inherited.
As for your plan......
You're organising the shop so step one is the current management priority.
I think the "pair" system looks better on paper than the reality will be. It must be frustrating to work on a bike this week, get new parts and then find usable parts on a bike next week.
Perhaps, like in an emergency room a sort of "triage" process will help when the bikes first come in?
Probably best to hear from people with experience in this kind of thing, though. I would imagine there is always going to be an efficiency Vs effectiveness friction.
Going through invoices with people who are not used to bikes may be a frustrating experience. I'd imagine the clearest way to communicate is to take an example bike and go through the process with them. Explain the frayed cable. The worn chain. The fact that you can't be sure that the dynamo wire is good or not, hence replaced. It's Germany - the lights have to work. Show the costs and expected sale value.
Next time "someone" starts complaining figure out if they are someone to listen to it not!
If it is management then a discussion is required.
To be fair, you have said yourself that some of your prices may be too low. Couple that with "the new guy" buying much more than the "old guy" and I can see where "people" would enquire.
One possible way out is to look at the achievable sale price of a bike and then assess the cost of making it ready for sale. Presumably there's a margin of profit required. Include that in the calculation.
If expenses mean that the margin cannot be achieved then the bike is shelved.
Another way is to have two similar bikes, one with new components (or as many as needed) the other not and both priced accordingly. Customers have a choice and understand why one is cheaper.
As you say, this is all "management" stuff and very far away from what you are used to.
Deep breaths and good luck!
Who is the "someone" and who are "some people"?
Are these in the chain of command?
If they are not then my advice is to develop tactics to either ignore them or shut them up.
If they are management then an explanation is needed and a discussion on the standards of bikes that you will be selling.
Now, here's the thing. You may find yourself having to compromise so my suggestion is to prepare well for any discussion, preferably with examples. For instance take a bike and explain the issues with chains, cassettes and cables.
As regards your specific questions:
Tools: They should be the best you can afford. Anything else is false economics
Consumables:
Cables: Damaged or frayed should be replaced. Sticky or gunky may be cleanable. What about the outers?
Tubes: I agree absolutely about matching valves but don't understand the reluctance to use patches. All.my tubes are patched, often several times
Chains & cassettes:
You need a chain wear tool!! That is just a simple example for any discussion on standards. The fact that you bought your own is only relevant to the point that you don't have all you need.
As for cassettes (and I am far from an expert) some people can judge the life in a cassette by looking at it. Yes, a worn chain might have worn it more but there may well be a lot of life in it yet. Selective reuse could save €s.
Dynamo systems: Again, you need a proper tool. It's basic arithmetic. Is there a source for cheap wire? Perhaps I'm wrong but I can't see that as being expensive?
The stock you are building up, is that new or recycled? If new do "the people" understand that the stock is waiting to be used and to add value?
Specific parts: if you need them you need them. However, do you really need them? Is the bike functional and safe without them? Or can you price the bike without (eg chain guard) and on the tag offer a price including the chain guard?
Don't worry about the things bought that are not needed right now. We've seen some of the pictures of what you inherited
.As for your plan......
You're organising the shop so step one is the current management priority.
I think the "pair" system looks better on paper than the reality will be. It must be frustrating to work on a bike this week, get new parts and then find usable parts on a bike next week.
Perhaps, like in an emergency room a sort of "triage" process will help when the bikes first come in?
Probably best to hear from people with experience in this kind of thing, though. I would imagine there is always going to be an efficiency Vs effectiveness friction.
Going through invoices with people who are not used to bikes may be a frustrating experience. I'd imagine the clearest way to communicate is to take an example bike and go through the process with them. Explain the frayed cable. The worn chain. The fact that you can't be sure that the dynamo wire is good or not, hence replaced. It's Germany - the lights have to work. Show the costs and expected sale value.
Next time "someone" starts complaining figure out if they are someone to listen to it not!
If we are talking about other people commenting (not management) then this needs to be said to management!
If it is management then a discussion is required.
To be fair, you have said yourself that some of your prices may be too low. Couple that with "the new guy" buying much more than the "old guy" and I can see where "people" would enquire.
One possible way out is to look at the achievable sale price of a bike and then assess the cost of making it ready for sale. Presumably there's a margin of profit required. Include that in the calculation.
If expenses mean that the margin cannot be achieved then the bike is shelved.
Another way is to have two similar bikes, one with new components (or as many as needed) the other not and both priced accordingly. Customers have a choice and understand why one is cheaper.
As you say, this is all "management" stuff and very far away from what you are used to.
Deep breaths and good luck!
Surely all that counts to the bean counters is that you make a profit on the bikes. Therefore some bike that you may be selling cheaply you should not be replacing chains and cassettes unless they really are worn badly and others you may want to replace them. There is very little point in selling bikes at a loss even if you are a community based charity.
OP
OP
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
I'm gradually working this out, and so far I'm developing rough "triage" categories.
1: Scrap
2: Could be made up with minimal effort, sold for 50 € or so if I have to do minimal work.
3: Borderline: not too bad but may need a lot of extra bits. These are the sort of bikes where I will probably pair them and cannibalise one. Sale price probably 100-150 €
4: Good frame but damaged or missing components, salvage what I can and buy what I can't, probably 150 -200 €
5: High end bike with little to do: do what is necessary to get ot out for sale, check price, charge accordingly.
