Super Low Gearing on 11sp

[greenmark]

I am about to purchase a new road bike but am looking for super-low gears. The bike will be used for a mix of sportives/touring. I live in Hong Kong where there are plenty of 20%+ grade climbs of up to 400m vertical ascent so am looking for super low gears. I also tour frequently in Taiwan where there are plenty of climbs of 1km+ vertical ascent. My current set up is a triple with lowest combination of 28T up front and 32T at the back, which is just about low enough for some of the climbs here. The hills mean I also want to upgrade to some more efficient braking so am considering some road disc set ups.

Now in researching new bikes it seems that most of the major manufacturers (Shimano, Campag, SRAM) have discontinued all triples and are now using 11-spds with compacts up front (50/34T). It's quite difficult to get new bikes here with any of the old drivetrains so if all I have available as options is pre-installed 11speed sets, I am wondering which of the following would be the better option:

- install a Shimano 11 speed (Ultegra or 105) with 50/34T up front 11/32T and the back, and if I need the lower gears then purchase a sub-compact 46/30T crankset by Velo.Orange, IRD or Sugino. The problem is I can't establish whether any of the subcompacts will work with 11sp set ups.

- install factory SRAM 11speed (Force or Rival) with 50/34T up front 11/32T at back. If I need then I retrofit by purchasing a SRAM 11/36T CX cassette and a SRAM X5 MTB derailleur. It seems that the derailleur actuation would match the Force 22 shifters so they should be OK, but SRAM does not officially say these are compatible on 11speed, though they did say so for their 10sp set-ups. Does anyone know whether this can work on 11sp?

Any thoughts?

 

[lpretro1]

If you need such low gears why buy a full blown road bike. You'd be better off getting a lightweight mtb and fitting a smoother,narrower tyre

 

[Sittingduck]

Could you fit a CX chainset to replace the compact?

Edit: Actually forget that - I obviously dunno what I am talking about. You will get a lower gear with a compact...

 

[winjim]

Campagnolo do Athena 11sp triple, but are you sure you can't get a 10sp or lower? I'd have thought that 11sp would be a lot more expensive and faffy to fix should it require maintenance whilst out on tour.

 

[boydj]

You could consider building up a frame with a triple chainset. Now is a good time of year to pick up some bargain components (or even an older model with a triple chainset).

 

[greenmark]

Thanks for suggestions so far.

If you need such low gears why buy a full blown road bike. You'd be better off getting a lightweight mtb and fitting a smoother,narrower tyre

I like drops, I don't like flat bars. So my quest is to find how low can I go with drops.

You could consider building up a frame with a triple chainset. Now is a good time of year to pick up some bargain components (or even an older model with a triple chainset).

The reason I'm asking about 11sp set ups instead of triples is that basically 11speeds is all that I can be supplied with here if I were to purchase a complete bike from an OEM.

I could theoretically order old triples components separately but

- it would end up quite expensive compared with OEM provided parts.

- Campy triples go only as low as 52/39/30 x 12/29T, so not much lower than the unmodified 50/34 x 11/32 double compact set ups.

- Shimano 105 triples are available but I worry about for how much longer those components will be available, particularly the levers. Ultegra triples are become quite difficult to find.

- In most cases triples have too many duplicate gears that it makes little sense compared with a compact double


If I were to go the component route I might buy an old 10sp set up which are known compatible with MTB derailleurs and cassettes (eg Shimano with 10sp road set + 9sp MTB derailleurs + 10sp MTB cassette, or SRAM 10sp road set + 10sp MTB derailleurs and 10sp cassette).


I’m not too worried about reliability when touring – in my experience touring in Asia most of the high end shops only stock the latest gear so soon it would be easier to find 11sp replacement components than 10sp. For the sake of future-proofing my set up. I'm just hoping that someone might have an update on compatibility for the new 11sp set ups.


Besides, 11sp is one louder.



FWIW: Velo.Orange replied to my query that their subcompacts are not compatible with the 11sp chains. So ultimately the question is whether anyone has experience with running a SRAM MTB 10sp derailleur on their 11speed set ups. SRAM produces an 11-36 11sp cassette for use with their CX groupset. Their MTB 10sp derailleurs have capacity for the 36T sprocket, and have the same actuation as their road setup. So theoretically it is possible but I've not found any practical info on this.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Have you looked at the SRAM 1x groupset? That has a single chainwheel and a monster cassette that goes up to 42T. I have no experience of using any of that, just what I've read. You mention SRAM CX above so I guess you've looked into this.

10-42 with a 40T chainring would give you 25" - 107" range, according to my (dodgy, fallible) calculations.


Good luck with it. Interested to see how things turn out.

 

[greenmark]

Have you looked at the SRAM 1x groupset? That has a single chainwheel and a monster cassette that goes up to 42T. I have no experience of using any of that, just what I've read. You mention SRAM CX above so I guess you've looked into this.

10-42 with a 40T chainring would give you 25" - 107" range, according to my (dodgy, fallible) calculations.
.

Interesting idea - but it seems a bit limited in that you're cutting down from 22sp entire set up to 11sp.

In any case the SRAM 1x are their MTB 11sp sets for only single chainrings up front. It is still an 11sp MTB sets which is not compatible with their 11sp Road brifters. Their new 11sp MTB derailleurs have the wrong actuation, so the cable pull from one click of road lever won't quite be enough to shift the chain exactly one cog.

More interesting is the 1x cranks - I could swap the OEM provided SRAM 11sp road setup with a one ring MTB crank. They have cranks available with only 26T that would give me some very interesting gears. If I were to choose a 30T crank and use the OEM supplied 11-32T cassette, that will give me a range of only 25" to 73". That might be a bit low and easy to spin out on descents.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Interesting idea - but it seems a bit limited in that you're cutting down from 22sp entire set up to 11sp.

In any case the SRAM 1x are their MTB 11sp sets for only single chainrings up front. It is still an 11sp MTB sets which is not compatible with their 11sp Road brifters. Their new 11sp MTB derailleurs have the wrong actuation, so the cable pull from one click of road lever won't quite be enough to shift the chain exactly one cog.

More interesting is the 1x cranks - I could swap the OEM provided SRAM 11sp road setup with a one ring MTB crank. They have cranks available with only 26T that would give me some very interesting gears. If I were to choose a 30T crank and use the OEM supplied 11-32T cassette, that will give me a range of only 25" to 73". That might be a bit low and easy to spin out on descents.

I get what you're saying about the cut down number of gears available, and possible big jumps between.

Re compatibility with brifters, I'm not sure. I re-read the article and I think the 1x stuff is all compatible with road bikes/brifters. But I could be wrong. Here's another article: linky

Have to emphasise that I'm a complete know-nothing about these things. They just caught my eye when they were announced (being a lover of low ratios myself).

 

[StuAff]

Can you not get Tiagra? 10 speed and still available as a triple.

 

[MichaelW2]

If you need such low gears why buy a full blown road bike. You'd be better off getting a lightweight mtb and fitting a smoother,narrower tyre

There is nothing wrong with the concept of a road bike with low gears. Tourists commonly hack Shimano systems to use MTB chainsets, but that is becoming harder to do.

 

[griff488]

Could you use an expander sprocket for the cassette like many mtb's? you lose one of the smaller cogs to be replaced with either a 40 or 42T expander. No idea if they would work on a road setup though

 

[greenmark]

I get what you're saying about the cut down number of gears available, and possible big jumps between.

Re compatibility with brifters, I'm not sure. I re-read the article and I think the 1x stuff is all compatible with road bikes/brifters. But I could be wrong. Here's another article: linky

Have to emphasise that I'm a complete know-nothing about these things. They just caught my eye when they were announced (being a lover of low ratios myself).

OIC
I didn't know about their 1x road sets. You're right, a 40T single chaineset with a 10-42T cassette, giving ratios from ~25-107". Gear jumps are about 13% to 17% - high but manageable.

It's not cheap thought - GBP922 for a complete groupset for discs. Plus the 10-42T requires a special driver body in the rear hub, so there aren't many wheelsets available or convertible. I"ve yahood a few sites and have only come up with single rear wheels of around GBP500. Shame that the 1x derailleurs are not compatible with the compact 2x chainsets (http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...gs-be-used-with-a-clutch-type-rear-derailleur).

 

[greenmark]

Could you use an expander sprocket for the cassette like many mtb's? you lose one of the smaller cogs to be replaced with either a 40 or 42T expander. No idea if they would work on a road setup though

It won't work on road set up. The road rear derailleurs have a max capacity of 32T on the rear cassette. Hence my question about compatibility of their MTB derailleurs with their 11sp set ups.

 

[greenmark]

Can you not get Tiagra? 10 speed and still available as a triple.

This might end up how I go. It means I might have to wait a bit for wider availability since the Tiagra has just been relaunched.