Substitute for hill training?

[50000tears]

First post, and the first of many I hope.

I am just starting out with structured training and trying to have a hills session once a week. The problem is that I went out today to the longest hill we have locally (still a 25 minute ride away) and it only takes 7 minutes to climb. I did go up and down it a few times but don't feel like this is giving me the intensity of workout I need to eventually get seriously good at climbing. All other hills in the town are either short, sharp 1-2 minute steep inclines or gentle ramps.

Is there anything else I can do on the bike to effectively replicate the effort of climbing? I havn't got access to a turbo/rollers nor can get either. I am a member of a work gym that has some cycle machines which aren't great but can be set for hills etc but just don't have the same feel as being on a proper bike. I guess I am looking for something that still requires me going out on the road.

Any help will be greatly appreciated

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Ride on the flat perhaps?

 

[Keith Oates]

When ever possible ride into the wind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[redcard]

If it only takes 7 minutes then try do it in 6 and a half?

 

[Noodley]

Stick it in high gears and climb it

 

[rbreid]

Adjust your brakes to rub

 

[50000tears]

Keith, yes that goes without saying. Always trying to do better each ride.

Nice idea Noodley, that will hurt like hell so is probably worth a go if my old knees can take it!

 

[Dusty Bin]

Is there anything else I can do on the bike to effectively replicate the effort of climbing?

As mentioned - ride on the flat. Riding up hill is pretty much the same as riding on the flat, except that you go slower for a higher effort. Train yourself to ride at a higher effort level for sustained periods and your all-round cycling performance (including your hill climbing ability) will improve.

 

[Dusty Bin]

Nice idea Noodley, that will hurt like hell so is probably worth a go if my old knees can take it!

It isn't really - because it's not going to increase your power, which is what you need. As you say - all it is likely to do is give you knee problems.

 

[50000tears]

Thanks Dusty. Yes there is a sense that I am trying to run before I can walk given how new I am to the sport. My base fitness still needs a lot of work. I have an epic sportive in the spring and want to be able to keep close to my speedy cycling friend so want to do everything I can to get in good shape in time. He can average 18mh over 100 miles and is insistent on us doing the whole ride together so I want to get as close to that as possible so as not to compromise him too much. Currently I can do 50 miles of low-moderately hilly riding at just under 16mh.

 

[Crankarm]

Stick it in high gears and climb it

No don't do this. Pushing heavy high gears is a big no no as all you do is knacker your knees.

 

[montage]

Try and do the 7 minute hill in 6 minutes. That'll give you the intensity.

failing that:

1. Join a club and do their club runs
2. just do # 1 because if you're a keen cyclist you'll end up doing it anyway.

 

[Spinney]

Moderator advisory: Please keep to the main topic under discussion and don't disrupt or derail it with off-topic comments, personal remarks or unnecessarily argumentative replies. Anyone doing so risks losing access to the thread.

 

[Crackle]

You could do what Chris Boardman used to do. Stick your bike on a treadmill on a gradient and cycle in an oxygen depleted room.........maybe not.

 

[Rob3rt]

The facts. You want to get good at hills. Hills come in different forms (short and steep, long drags, rolling/roadmans type climbs etc etc). These different type of hills demand different types of training (long hills will be ridden at threshold, short steep hills at VO2 max, or if racing, well into the red). None of this training need be on hills. Technique is secondary to power to weight ratio. It you want to go up hill fast, or indeed go fast full stop, you need to learn to suffer!

Lets get down to business.

These short climbs you talk about, 1-2 minutes long, I would call those short and steep and you are going to be going up them at VO2 max or worse, with a massive anaerobic contribution, so train at VO2 max, whether by repping these hills, or riding at that intensity for durations of 3-5 minutes on the flat and also train your anaerobic ability by doing shorter very high intensity efforts, again on the hill or on the flat.

The climbs of around 7 minutes, I would call that a medium length climb, you will be riding at VO2 max, so again training this by repping the hill, or by doing 3-5 minute VO2 max efforts on the flat.

Climbs of 12+ minutes are long climbs and will be ridden at threshold mostly, with a high contribution of VO2 max level power, so again train VO2 max and also threshold. On hills or the flat.

Very long climbs, ~18-20 minutes or more, e.g. The Cat and Fiddle, Cragg Vale etc, this is like a time trial, ridden at threshold. Train your threshold.

General tips, reduce your weight, if you have anything that can safely and healthily be lost, lose it (I use a rule of thumb that on a typical 3 minute hill climb, 1kg lost is a saving of ~5 seconds, not strictly true, but through various calculations on various courses, this seems to be an acceptable rule of thumb to me). Regardless of what hills or type of riding you do, you should work on pushing your threshold up, this is the single most critical thing in improving performance.

I see people saying if you want to get good at riding up hill then you need to go ride the hills more etc all the time, well these people are wrong and/or ignorant IMO. Both personal experience and a little understanding of training theory tell me this. It is true that what separates a competent climber and a very good climber is practice at pacing hills and technique of sorts, but there is absolutely no need to go near a hill to become a competent climber.

It isn't really - because it's not going to increase your power, which is what you need. As you say - all it is likely to do is give you knee problems.

Well, there are some situations where big gear work can be helpful, especially so for a climber IMO. But a little self awareness is needed when doing so.

No don't do this. Pushing heavy high gears is a big no no as all you do is knacker your knees.

No it is not!