Spokes again

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GavinDavies7

Active Member
Location
Rhondda valley
Another long ride last night. Another two spokes on the front wheel this time. That's 5 spokes in the last 3 long rides ( long for me which was 26 miles) Would cyclocross wheels be of any benifit to me as I would think they would be stronger than road wheels and could you still put road tyres on them ? Thanks
 
Location
Loch side.
No, to the cyclo question.

Spokes break from metal fatigue and all spokes in a wheel fatigue equally and break approximately the same time, give or take a few hundred kms.

Have someone replace the spokes - all of them, with double butted spokes and let them stress-relieve the wheel. If they don't understand the latter term, find someone who does.
 

Venod

Eh up
Location
Yorkshire
As above....hand built wheels done properly can't be beaten.

I build my own wheels because I get satisfaction doing it and you get exactly what I want in hubs, spokes, rims, but I am under no illusions that my builds are any better than a quality built machine wheel, there are probably some cheap built machine wheels but not at the higher end of the market, the technology available nowadays is very accurate.

 

winjim

Smash the cistern
The fact that this is happening again (again) is evidence to support @Yellow Saddle 's assertion, as also mentioned by @Tim Hall in the previous thread. Search @Yellow Saddle 's post history for some good explanations of how spokes actually work, the way they fatigue and the advantages of good double butted spokes. Then do as he suggests and get all the spokes replaced, there's no need to replace the entire wheelset.
 
Location
Loch side.
I build my own wheels because I get satisfaction doing it and you get exactly what I want in hubs, spokes, rims, but I am under no illusions that my builds are any better than a quality built machine wheel, there are probably some cheap built machine wheels but not at the higher end of the market, the technology available nowadays is very accurate.



Accurate maybe, but still has some problems. These machines cannot bring spokes up to high tension. The machine cannot sense spoke wind-up like clever humans can and thus cannot compensate for it. They machine also starts to hunt for the right number of nipple turns as the tension is set higher.
That doesn't mean these machines don't have a place. Humans just cannot build enough wheels to cope with demand. Good wheels are hand-finished. Humans do the last bit of tensioning.

The video is unfortunately just an amateur cellphone one but I do think I saw a section where the spokes were stress-relieved, one by one. Look at 0:54. That piston that presses on the spokes is doing a stress-relieving job. The voices in the background describe it as press-stressing, which is a different concept altogether. That's a good sign, but I don't see any evidence of a process whereby the spokes are untwisted. It may be that the tension is so low that that process is not needed. That's a bad sign.

I've seen another machine in operation that stress relieves the wheel quite violently. The rim is fitted into a circular recess like a manhole cover in it's recess. A piston then presses on the hub to stress-relieve all the spokes on one side and untwist all the others on the slack side. The wheel is reversed and the same done again on the other side. Humans would then go in and tweak the wobbles resulting from the spokes which were twisted and are now untwisted. I think it was a Bontrager factory video IIRC.
 

Spoked Wheels

Legendary Member
Location
Bournemouth
Another long ride last night. Another two spokes on the front wheel this time. That's 5 spokes in the last 3 long rides ( long for me which was 26 miles) Would cyclocross wheels be of any benifit to me as I would think they would be stronger than road wheels and could you still put road tyres on them ? Thanks

If you're breaking spokes then you will not be able to stop it, metal fatigue is to blame.
A well built set of road wheels with sufficient spokes, will do the job.
 
U

User6179

Guest
Another long ride last night. Another two spokes on the front wheel this time. That's 5 spokes in the last 3 long rides ( long for me which was 26 miles) Would cyclocross wheels be of any benifit to me as I would think they would be stronger than road wheels and could you still put road tyres on them ? Thanks

The fulcrum cyclecross specific wheels are just road wheels with an extra seal on the bearings and CX written on the side , I would imagine other brands are just the same , a marketing ploy.
 
Location
Loch side.
The fulcrum cyclecross specific wheels are just road wheels with an extra seal on the bearings and CX written on the side , I would imagine other brands are just the same , a marketing ploy.
I think you are far too gullible for a cynic. Extra seal? I don't think so.
 
U

User6179

Guest
Let's lay down some rules first.

Any good wheel should have two seals. One contact seal, one labyrinth seal.

A rubber grommet that goes over the axle and hub nose is not a seal, it is a water reservoir.

OK, let's go.


Yes they should come sealed both sides but if Fulcrum had put 2RS( sealed both sides) bearings in there road wheels then they couldn't have marketed the CX version as having upgraded bearings , could they ?
 
Location
Loch side.
Yes they should come sealed both sides but if Fulcrum had put 2RS( sealed both sides) bearings in there road wheels then they couldn't have marketed the CX version as having upgraded bearings , could they ?

No, 2RS means ONE SEAL per side of the bearing. That's not double-sealed. That also leaves the bearing vulnerable because there isn't a second non-contact seal to protect the contact seal. A good hub has one contact seal and one labyrinth seal on the outside of each side namely left and right. Inside is irrelevant unless the axle is vented, which nowadays never is except for one or two visionary companies.

You believe marketing material? Gotcha, you are gullible. I don't do smileys, it messes with my reputation but assume the gotcha and all that is in a friendly style.
 
U

User6179

Guest
No, 2RS means ONE SEAL per side of the bearing. That's not double-sealed. That also leaves the bearing vulnerable because there isn't a second non-contact seal to protect the contact seal. A good hub has one contact seal and one labyrinth seal on the outside of each side namely left and right. Inside is irrelevant unless the axle is vented, which nowadays never is except for one or two visionary companies.

You believe marketing material? Gotcha, you are gullible. I don't do smileys, it messes with my reputation but assume the gotcha and all that is in a friendly style.

Edit- I don't mention double-sealed , the post your quoting says sealed both sides !
Nice try but bye :hello:
 
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