Spoke selection

[Shut Up Legs]

Can anyone provide links to information on selecting spokes? I want to build my next wheelset for my Vivente tourer/commuter, but don't know what spokes I need to get. I'm thinking of getting the same* rims as I currently have, which are DT Swiss TK540. On the front, I'll be putting a replacement dynohub*, as I don't want to put the front wheel out of action while building the new one. It will be 36 holes rear and 32 front.

* or at least something similar, if that brand & model is no longer available. I've been fairly happy with these rims.
** most likely something similar to the one I have now, which is a SON-20R, a very nice dynohub with minimal drag and reliable output.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Actually, I've just been reading Sheldon Brown & John Allen's web page on wheel building, which has a nice section on spoke selection, but if any of you wish to comment anyway, feel free . I've never built a bicycle wheel before, so need all the sage advice I can get.

 

[I like Skol]

My advice and experience as an amateur wheel builder (for what it's worth). Don't skimp! By all means get a great price on the product you want but DO NOT down grade to an inferior product to save pennies. Spokes, I have never been let down by Swiss DT stainless butted spokes. I have abused several sets of MTB wheels built with competition spokes (2.0/1.8/2.0mm) and can't recommend them highly enough. DT do a revolution butted spoke that is more severely butted (2.0/1.5/2.0) and while I have never used these, I would have no hesitation in using them for a light Sunday ride road bike.
I have recently built a set of wheels for my disc braked, rear panniered, commuting bike using DT Alpine spokes with a 32 front and 36 spoke rear. IMO these spokes are ideal for touring or disc braked wheels as they are thicker at the hub end and more capable of dealing with the stresses of fully loaded touring or efficient hub based braking. They are 2.3mm at the hub, 1.8mm in the middle and the typical 2,0mm at the nipple. Speaking of nipples, don't be tempted by lightweight alloy ones, it has to be chrome plated brass nipples every time. They are reliable.... period!

Rims, I have always insisted on Mavic for my own builds and also insist on double eyeleted rims as I believe there is merit in the fact that the eyelet bridges the hollow rim section to pull on two layers of aluminium rather than just one on single eyeleted rims.

As I said at the start, this is only my opinion and experience but if you ever saw me hammering down a steep long flight of steps at full pelt with complete confidence then I think you would agree, the resulting wheels are damn strong!

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Those were my thoughts, too . I'm more than happy to put durability and reliability over cost. So your DT Swiss spokes are double-butted and the DT Alpines triple-butted? Just trying to learn the terminology.

 

[ushills]

Sapims are an equivalent for DT, go for double butted as they are stronger.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Not sure Sapim race are better that DT Swiss competition but I think they are both good quality spokes.

DT Alpine are good spokes for touring wheels - make sure they are not too tight on the hub end. Some hubs have very small diameter holes.

Tough hubs should be used in touring wheels and they don't come tougher than Shimano hubs.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

A follow-up question: how can I determine the spoke lengths before buying the hubs and rims? Is this even possible? The online spoke length calculators I've seen all require the hub and rim measurements, but they don't cover all the hubs and rims. Do I need to get the hubs and rims, buy 2 spokes of more than the the estimated required length, and then do the measurements, so I can then calculate the required lengths using something like Roger Musson's Wheelpro spoke length calculator? Or is there an easier method?

 

[Spoked Wheels]

A follow-up question: how can I determine the spoke lengths before buying the hubs and rims? Is this even possible? The online spoke length calculators I've seen all require the hub and rim measurements, but they don't cover all the hubs and rims. Do I need to get the hubs and rims, buy 2 spokes of more than the the estimated required length, and then do the measurements, so I can then calculate the required lengths using something like Roger Musson's Wheelpro spoke length calculator? Or is there an easier method?

You can do a search for the information on the Internet but make sure you don't take just any figure. If the same figures come up in different sites and you feel they are more reliable then you might have found what you are looking for. (Some people advise against of what I have said here) I'm guilty of looking up on the Internet (not always) but it has worked OK for me.

If you stick some numbers on a spoke length calculator you will see that there's a substantial room for error. ERD is the measurement that has the greatest effect on the spoke length so you need to get it with a greater margin of accuracy.

 

[I like Skol]

I used the spoke length calculators on 3 different websites. I can't remember the names but I am sure there are links from the Sheldon Brown site and one that I used was the DT spokes own calculator on their website. As RRSODL has said, the ERD (rim diameter) has the biggest impact on spoke length. Hub flange dimensions have only a small affect for quite large discrepencies. If you are using Shimano hubs then their tech sheets can often be found (with google) with the information you require.
In fact, hang on a minute.......
I thought so, I saved a link to THIS DOCUMENT as I knew I would probably want it again.

 

[Mark Grant]

http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator/

 

[PpPete]

http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/
Has about the biggest database of rim/hub dimensions that I could find, and has so far proved reliable.

I'll often buy hubs, rims and spokes from different sources to get the best prices, so I've the opportunity to double check dimensions on the first two before ordering the spokes. However - cheapest place for both DT Swiss Competition spokes AND Dynohubs is usually Rosebikes, and it's worth ordering together to save on shipping costs.

 

[accountantpete]

Keep to the major brands and they nearly always supply the ERD for any given rim.

The TK540 is 600mm as per
http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-Road/TK-540

 

[Spoked Wheels]

http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/
Has about the biggest database of rim/hub dimensions that I could find, and has so far proved reliable.

+1

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Thanks for the feedback, people, much appreciated! I found the DT Swiss TK540 specs myself, and also the Shimano specs, although the latter don't cover the Shimano hub I was planning to get, i.e. the XT T780. But no matter: a member of the Bicycle Network Victoria forums, who's also a bike mechanic, posted to me the measurements for this hub.