is it because planet x just by generic carbon, ti, alu frames on the cheap from china.......where as cervelo, specialized, canyon etc etc would have their own R&D set-ups, different carbon wraps and overlays etc etc........Exactly. None of those bikes are the sort I would ride anyway, but it just goes to show how much mark-up there is on the "premium" brands, despite a lot of them being pretty much the same under the skin. Some of the pricey ones are also plagued with creaking BBs and really crap manufacturing tolerances, so it's not like you are necessarily even getting a better product for all the extra cash.