Some advice on biking to school & using their bike shed.

[Canrider]

PMSL.
Part of me thinks 'Whatever, wear the helmet, let her have her power trip/illusions' but this kind of control-freakery/bogus liability avoidance deserves to be challenged. Mr Paul and shouldbeinbed's advice IMO was spot on, get her on the basics of the policy before going into the stratosphere. Ultimately it'll turn out it's just her personal opinion about helmets/belief this is the way to avoid any legal liabilities, and yet the implication of her policy is the same as if she came round to your house and ensured you were feeding your kids school-approved meals out of school hours.

 

[stu9000]

I m a teacher.
I see kids risk their lives when I'm on duty every day. They have little road sense and have no idea how rushed and harassed some drivers are or any idea of how invisible they are. Both as pedestrians at the lights or on bikes i wince on a daily basis. We've done assemblies and talks and will continue to do so.

I'm a pretty anti establishment guy on the quiet. Not a massive fan of heavy handed power hungry managers whether in education or not. In my dealings with parents I'm always courteous and respect their views even if I don't agree. The time it takes is always a good investment that pays dividends down the line.

But, you did go on a bit. And is it that big a deal. Perhaps there are other debates to be had such as Goves sweeping changes to the curriculum and the fabric of our country's school infrastructure.
I've just read four pages of angry posts talking about how awful this head is and what a terrible thing she is doing.

Really?
Maybe she just wants the pupils to arrive at school safely and get home again safely .





Now, I know I know.
In this health and safety rule obsessed risk averse world we live in our kids are not allowed to fall out of trees, explore the woods and could end up alienated from the real world. Even us adults are treated like infants that need protecting by the state.

But this isn't about that. Its a school trying to look after its students. Your sons and daughters.

Perhaps she could have been more delicate in her response but all this talk about letters to govs is, in my view, undeserved in this case.

 

[Puddles]

There lies my internal struggle, see part of me says Squidge wears a helmet so whats the big deal, you comply to her requirements so just carry on and ignore it. (Ignore it either for the next 8 years - youngest will be next one there or until she leaves) sign on that little dotted line every year to get a bike pass that says I will put a helmet on my child cos you say so.

Then part of me says you know what love Get Tae F**k (and the fish wife comes out) and I feel a primal urge to say things like "how bloody dare you" and "what gives you the right" and it makes me feel resentful for every sodding cake I have bloody baked for their cake sale

The last tangle I had with a Head was over a no chocolate policy (Long story short Squidge had a pirate treasure map cake for his birthday - I sent in the practice small Treasure Chest I had made as part of his lunch on his actual birthday as a treat it had a whole 5 golden chocolate buttons in it - Lunch Assistant (Dinner lady) called a code red lol it got removed and he was not allowed it) - I detest the lunch box police, that Head at least had the grace to admit that he agreed that chocolate in moderation was part of a healthy balanced diet and that their lunch box policies were aimed at the Can of Coke & a Mars Bar lunch boxes, then freely admitted that the coke & mars bar brigade would not take any notice anyway.

 

[Puddles]

I m a teacher.
I see kids risk their lives when I'm on duty every day. They have little road sense and have no idea how rushed and harassed some drivers are or any idea of how invisible they are. Both as pedestrians at the lights or on bikes i wince on a daily basis. We've done assemblies and talks and will continue to do so.

I'm a pretty anti establishment guy on the quiet. Not a massive fan of heavy handed power hungry managers whether in education or not. In my dealings with parents I'm always courteous and respect their views even if I don't agree. The time it takes is always a good investment that pays dividends down the line.

But, you did go on a bit. And is it that big a deal. Perhaps there are other debates to be had such as Goves sweeping changes to the curriculum and the fabric of our country's school infrastructure.
I've just read four pages of angry posts talking about how awful this head is and what a terrible thing she is doing.

Really?
Maybe she just wants the pupils to arrive at school safely and get home again safely .





Now, I know I know.
In this health and safety rule obsessed risk averse world we live in our kids are not allowed to fall out of trees, explore the woods and could end up alienated from the real world. Even us adults are treated like infants that need protecting by the state.

But this isn't about that. Its a school trying to look after its students. Your sons and daughters.

Perhaps she could have been more delicate in her response but all this talk about letters to govs is, in my view, undeserved in this case.

Great I get your sentiments and see where you are coming from so if she is so concerned then why are most children that comply to her policy wearing ill-fitted helmets which as I understand it is as bad as not wearing one, why has she not arranged for someone to come in a give parents a how to lesson, same with bike maintenance, same with lessons for children on how to ride. If it were a genuine concern about bike safety then the school would not respond with "wear helmets" Ta-Dah problem solved

Yes it is a HUGE deal to me when someone attempts to take away my parental right to decide what my child does in my time & my care when they are not in any position to do so

 

[oldfatfool]

Now, I know I know.
In this health and safety rule obsessed risk averse world we live in our kids are not allowed to fall out of trees, explore the woods and could end up alienated from the real world. Even us adults are treated like infants that need protecting by the state..

Except the state don't specify that a child must wear a helmet

But this isn't about that. Its a school trying to look after its students. Your sons and daughters.

Until one child as a simple accident that would have resulted in a slight bump, but instead leads to a broken neck from a rotational injury brought about from wearing a helmet.

 

[Canrider]

In this health and safety rule obsessed risk averse world we live in our kids are not allowed to fall out of trees, explore the woods and could end up alienated from the real world.

That's nice.
My children go to an 'outstanding' (Ofsted 2010, IIRC) daycare that:
- Takes them into the local woods for exploration, campfires and building huts
- *Doesn't* make them wear helmets to use the scooters and balance bikes they've got for use in the slab-paved backyard of the facility. Favourite activity is riding the bikes and scooters down the access ramp and into the mix of kids in the outdoor play area at speed. I've never seen a serious accident that wearing a helmet would mitigate.
These activities and provisions were in place at the most recent Ofsted inspection and were singled out as something the playgroup did well.

So, you're a teacher, I've got actual Ofsted on my side, what've you got?

 

[ufkacbln]

That's not some thing they can actually enforce is it?
But as the op has already said they are always on about considerate parking, not alot else they cam do is there?

OF course they can!

They enforce parental choice on cycle helmets by withdrawing privileges from teh child.

It is so simple to use the same system of censure if a parental choice is to drive or park like a muppet!

It is the same system, and the same authority.... to fail to do so is pure hypocrisy

 

[ufkacbln]

The other side of the coin is the trotted out claim that it is in the intersets of the child, and that she is only taking care of them...

I m a teacher.
I see kids risk their lives when I'm on duty every day. They have little road sense and have no idea how rushed and harassed some drivers are or any idea of how invisible they are. Both as pedestrians at the lights or on bikes i wince on a daily basis. We've done assemblies and talks and will continue to do so..

Why are HiViz jackets not compulsory for all children it would increase their visibility and s no more difficult to enforce than cycle helmets.

Two other things did worry me i.. firstly failing to take care around a School because you are "rushed and harassed" is a ludicrous excuse for bad driving.

Secondly is the concept of "road sense" - adults should remain responsible for the safety of children, FULL STOP

Research has shown that children cannot accurately read vehicle speeds and distances as they lack the experience and skills to intepret vehicle motion. Height references change as a child grows so this makes relative height of a vehicle difficult to assess.

In recent research an adult was shown to be able to detect accurately a 5 mph difference in speed for approaching vehicles where as children under 11 can only distinguish a 20 mph or more !

It is nothing at all to do with "road sense" but simply the ability of the child to read the traffic.... yet with all this knowledge we still expect the child to interpret, react and avoid acidents, as opposed to the driver actually taking extra time and care around the school (too rushed and harassed?)

 

[stu9000]

So, you're a teacher, I've got actual Ofsted on my side, what've you got?

This is my point exactly. Are we not on the same side? I understand your annoyance but don't make the situation even more polarised.

Some other points made are good ideas. Getting parents in for a talk where all these concerns could be in the table is much more effective than edicts fired off by a faceless bureaucracy. But there is not time for everything. Maybe, if a lot of parents feel like you, this should be made a higher priority. I do wonder whether many parents share your view. That's a genuine question and not a snipe. What do parents feel think?

I'm guessing the real issue here is a feeling that parent autonomy is being undermined. Parents are being guilt tripped from the moment the kid is born.

The healthy food police example is a good illustration. From a school perspective we see the impact a high sugar diet has on behaviour and concentration but the rules laid down no doubt make a lot of parents feel judged. But how can the school single out certain families?

It's not just schools that make rules that affect more than just the target group. We all have to drive at 70 mph cos some people drive dangerously. There are millions of examples of where we all get tarred with the same brush.

Teachers are not perfect. We don't always get it right. But the vast majority care deeply about your kids learning and safety.

I would urge anyone who is frustrated with the school administration to go see the head of year and have a discussion. Don't just fire off a long and angry letter. Maybe your cycling expertise could help the school develop a better policy. Maybe the school is not aware about some peoples views on helmets and feel that asking students to wear them is a no brainer.

 

[hatler]

This is my point exactly. Are we not on the same side? I understand your annoyance but don't make the situation even more polarised.

Some other points made are good ideas. Getting parents in for a talk where all these concerns could be in the table is much more effective than edicts fired off by a faceless bureaucracy. But there is not time for everything. Maybe, if a lot of parents feel like you, this should be made a higher priority. I do wonder whether many parents share your view. That's a genuine question and not a snipe. What do parents feel think?

I'm guessing the real issue here is a feeling that parent autonomy is being undermined. Parents are being guilt tripped from the moment the kid is born.

The healthy food police example is a good illustration. From a school perspective we see the impact a high sugar diet has on behaviour and concentration but the rules laid down no doubt make a lot of parents feel judged. But how can the school single out certain families?

It's not just schools that make rules that affect more than just the target group. We all have to drive at 70 mph cos some people drive dangerously. There are millions of examples of where we all get tarred with the same brush.

Teachers are not perfect. We don't always get it right. But the vast majority care deeply about your kids learning and safety.

I would urge anyone who is frustrated with the school administration to go see the head of year and have a discussion. Don't just fire off a long and angry letter. Maybe your cycling expertise could help the school develop a better policy. Maybe the school is not aware about some peoples views on helmets and feel that asking students to wear them is a no brainer.

I think the emboldened bit is the likeliest of all reasons behind the edict.

Sensible, concise, level headed engagement on the issue has to be the method most likely to produce a satisfactory outcome for all.

 

[Puddles]

This is my point exactly. Are we not on the same side? I understand your annoyance but don't make the situation even more polarised.

Some other points made are good ideas. Getting parents in for a talk where all these concerns could be in the table is much more effective than edicts fired off by a faceless bureaucracy. But there is not time for everything. Maybe, if a lot of parents feel like you, this should be made a higher priority. I do wonder whether many parents share your view. That's a genuine question and not a snipe. What do parents feel think?

Quite a number share my view all cyclists, some I was with today, all of whom wish to know her answer to my last mail, asking what evidence she based her decision on. One of these parents until last Summer lived in NZ (Where there are helmet laws) she chooses in this country not to put helmets on her children & had not realised the school had this policy

I'm guessing the real issue here is a feeling that parent autonomy is being undermined. Parents are being guilt tripped from the moment the kid is born.

Feeling? It is, unequivocally. My time, my care, off school property = no duty of care to the school
In fact even the government agrees with me


https://www.gov.uk/health-safety-school-children
When schools are responsible for health and safety

Schools are responsible for day-to-day health and safety whenever your child is in the care of school staff - this includes school trips and clubs.

The healthy food police example is a good illustration. From a school perspective we see the impact a high sugar diet has on behaviour and concentration but the rules laid down no doubt make a lot of parents feel judged. But how can the school single out certain families?

Mainly because in my experience & it seems the last schools Head Teachers experience they are in-effective. The parents that, shall we say for ease "know what is a healthy diet & provide it" get annoyed when they are pulled up by the teacher at pick up time for putting an illicit item as an occasional treat in their child's lunch and because they are for want of a better way of putting it "good parents" they suck it up, apologise and off they go, usually red as a beetroot. I have seen Teachers do the same to a Mars Bar & Coke parent, the parent has turned round on the Teacher snarled at them told them to Eff Off, and strangely those parents are never seen being questioned again... I can't speak for all schools I can only speak from experience of what I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my ears.

At this school if they can single parents out & pull parents in at end of school for their child not completing the homework, project or not doing home reading or doing spelling etc, in infant school, surely they can single them out for other things

It's not just schools that make rules that affect more than just the target group. We all have to drive at 70 mph cos some people drive dangerously. There are millions of examples of where we all get tarred with the same brush.

Teachers are not perfect. We don't always get it right. But the vast majority care deeply about your kids learning and safety.

Wonderful, this is exactly what I would want them to be, whilst they are in their care as per the government guidelines

I would urge anyone who is frustrated with the school administration to go see the head of year and have a discussion. Don't just fire off a long and angry letter. Maybe your cycling expertise could help the school develop a better policy. Maybe the school is not aware about some peoples views on helmets and feel that asking students to wear them is a no brainer.

My letter is long, I don't see it as being angry, perhaps it is a matter of perspective, it is factual, it questions and asks for information, I am not rude in it.

But, okay lets take your spin on things as "someone who knows about behind the scenes at schools"

The Headteacher I would hope has quite some experience under her belt (she is not a youngster) I am sure she has received far more blatantly rude letters, I am sure she has had some very aggressive parents in front of her, I could wiffle I am sure you get the point I am trying to make, in short if she cannot handle a letter such as mine without being thoroughly rude and dismissive and arrogant in her response, then I question her right to be in that job, as I said before I am reserving judgement, she might have had a bad day, she might have fired off a knee jerk reply and now regrets it, she might be a lovely person as long as you do not question her, I do not know until further communication is entered in to.

I posted this here as I felt I was most likely not alone in schools doing this and hoped someone might have some advice or have been through this before and have some answers.

I still believe that a school has no right to attempt to impose rules for my children, in my time & off of school property with penalties of withdrawing facilities for non-compliance.

As a Teacher perhaps you can answer that question as to do they have the right to do that?

Oh and another thing which may make a difference to views, is the trip to school from anywhere in the village is at most a 30 second walk to the cycle path which runs, all the way through the main road and goes right past the school, the only place cars are an issue, is at the school entrance with cars turning into the same "road" which has car park entrance on left and school gates on right

 

[Sara_H]

Hello all

Hoping someone can help, I should first state that I do put helmets on my children, but my mind set waivers on a daily basis with the more I read about them, anyhoo this is not so much helmet or anti-helmet

We had the newsletter today, and I had not realised the Head Teacher states helmets must be compulsory, I have a vague recollection of signing the Bike pass request form when waved under my nose by the eldest - can't say I read the terms though (bad Mummy).

Having and peered and stuff, it seems even the Government say it should be left up to parents whether to helmet their children, which is fair enough.

BUT, the Head Teacher has said that if my son does not wear a helmet on our journey to school then he cannot park his bike in the bike rack on school premises, I should point out you are not allowed to cycle on school premises, so from the gate he dismounts and pushes the bike.

The bottom line is the school is trying to dictate the safety gear that I put on my child in my time, off of school property with the rider that if I do not comply then my sons bike permit will be removed and no parking his bike at school.

I wrote a letter

"You state in your newsletter that a child must wear a helmet when cycling otherwise they are not allowed a bike pass, yet you also have stated on numerous occasions that there is to be no cycling within the school grounds.
If my child is not cycling on your property nor within school hours, I would question the validity of your statement considering you are attempting to dictate a requirement for my child to don a piece of headgear that is not a legal requirement, in order to pursue an activity that is not in school time and not on your property and not whilst my child is in your care.
Whilst on your property (but out of school hours) he has to push his bike into the school and park it in your bike rack neither of those activities pushing/parking are suitably dangerous to require a helmet.
I would very much appreciate you providing me with the information you based this decision on in order to extend your remit with regard to your duty of care to my child to attempt to enforce a policy on an activity that takes place in the time where my child is in my care.
I am aware of numerous studies that say helmets indeed save lives in serious collisions but would be most interested to hear how & who advised you with regard to accidents whilst wearing a helmet and resulting injuries caused by the helmet and how you weighed up this and decided that helmet wearing would be enforced regardless.
I and my children as cyclists are insured both our equipment and ourselves specifically whilst cycling, and my policy has a long list of items that must be adhered to before they will pay out in the event of an accident. Wearing a helmet is not one of those requirements.
Samuel does indeed wear a helmet which is my choice; you may then question why I choose to write with regard to this issue as I am adhering to your requirements in order to secure a cycle pass. The answer to that is simple, whilst my child is in your care and/or on your property I adhere without question to the policies that you have in place in order to ensure that you fulfil the duty of care you have towards my son & other students.
I, however, do not accept that you have the right to dictate any policy with regard to times that my child is not on your property & not in your care and nor do I accept that you have the right to do this via blackmail/penalties through the use of cycle helmets, i.e. “your child will wear one out of school in your time when not in our care else we will not let you lock their bike on our property” because if we bring it down to the baseline this is what you are saying, as there is no requirement for a child to wear a helmet when they are pushing a bike, (As there is no cycling on school property) nor whilst they are locking a bike into a bike rack, there is no time where my child is cycling whilst he is in your care or on your property.
I look forward to your response providing me with the information requested being, where it is shown you have the right to extend your remit to dictating requirements whilst a child is not in your care, what the discussion was with regard to the decision to make cycle helmets compulsory & upon whose expertise this was based & what studies you took note of in order to facilitate the making of this decision considering it is not a legal requirement in the UK for cyclists to wear helmets.
With the level of controversy & conflicting evidence over bike helmets and the fact that it is not a legal requirement I would suggest that the school is in a precarious position to cite that statement as fact & as a reason why they feel the need to over step their remit & attempt to enforce compulsory helmet wearing."
I received this reply

"Thank you for your email.

No child cycling to school is required to park their bicycle on school
grounds. If you or any parent disagrees with my view that wearing a helmet
is a sensible safety measure then you are under no obligation to park the
bike on the school site.

It is entirely your decision."

She is correct I am not required to park his bike there but there is no where else to leave it, I just think it is stretching her authority a bit far, surely the school has no authority over my child, in my time, off school grounds?

Heyulp!

I had a simlar issue with my sons school. Every term the schools newsletter stated that in order to be allowed to ride school children had to wear a helmet and had to have passed bikeability. My son doesn't ride to school as we only live a two minute walk away, but it really rankled with me!

I emailed the head teacher and copied the school governers in, stating that as far as I was concerned they had no responsibility or duty of care for my son when he is off school premises, outside school hours and that what he wore, by what method he traveled and with what level of training/experience he had was entirely my responsibility.

I also pointed them in the direction of some helmet research, making the point that their assumptions about the protection offered by helmets were probably wrong and that helmet enforcement was most likely to discourage children, particularly girls from cycling which I fealt is not inkeeping with the schools "healthy living" ethos.

I got a quite rude email back from the head teacher stating that she most certainly was responsible for children as they traveled to school, and that Bradley Wiggins had said that people should wear helmets so that was good enough for her!

I got an even ruder email from the head governor, stating similar nonsense.

I replied once again, with a few more links to information around the issues, and didn't hear anymore. I have noticed though, that the instructions re: helmets/bikeability have not appeared in the newsletter since that time!

I feel your frustration, and this is the kind of issue I'd be prepared to take further if I were you.

 

[ufkacbln]

[QUOTE 2494590, member: 45"]Yes there is. Every few weeks at our previous school a local beat bobby would stand at the gates, at the invitation of the school, and chastise the idiots.[/quote]

One of our local schools used "pester power" they taught the children how to park responsibly and got them to nag the parents when they failed to do so. it was later withdrawn due to the number of complaints from parents

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

The first thing I think you need to appreciate is that the head is doing what she believes is best for your child. I would rather have a head who cares rather than one who does not.
I would then try to work with her, rather than against her..... Why not ask a local bike shop to do a bike doctor once every six months at school and check the bikes, the helmets and advise on safety clothing and lights etc.... having a cycling professional support what you wish to achieve adds value.
Do organized rides from school in the summer, start a school cycle club.
I think you would build support for cycling, rather than fighting one issue which IMHO is simply not worth the effort... What harm does it do if the little one has to wear a helmet, I don't have total freedom to wear what I want to work., its the real world - like it or not at times we need to conform

 

[Puddles]

The first thing I think you need to appreciate is that the head is doing what she believes is best for your child. I would rather have a head who cares rather than one who does not.
I would then try to work with her, rather than against her..... Why not ask a local bike shop to do a bike doctor once every six months at school and check the bikes, the helmets and advise on safety clothing and lights etc.... having a cycling professional support what you wish to achieve adds value.
Do organized rides from school in the summer, start a school cycle club.
I think you would build support for cycling, rather than fighting one issue which IMHO is simply not worth the effort... What harm does it do if the little one has to wear a helmet, I don't have total freedom to wear what I want to work., its the real world - like it or not at times we need to conform

It is eroding my parental authority, would the Head Teacher accept me dictating terms to her? Perhaps I should insist that the school make all children wear helmets at play time and that the school should fund this, because judging by the number of "head injury" forms I receive that state the cause was banging heads with another child in the playground oh & the twice he smacked his head off the playground, I can only assume that many other children do this and so it would only be a sensible safety measure, right?

Quite a few children roller blade to school - no helmets insisted for them by the school as they hang their boots up on their peg, and the school cannot enforce this by removing their school peg.

I do support cycling, which is why I would fight for barriers to entry to be removed, i.e the school dictating to parents and over stepping their authority.

Everywhere mandatory helmet laws have been introduced cycling numbers have decreased