Slow London Marathon Runners 3.5mph Abused.

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

Thank you for the replies.

I suspect that we have exhausted this topic and as I started it I will, possibly, close it. :-)

To the replies of the ilk of armchair critic, sounds like a motorist, shame to see such an attitude;

When I was a schoolboy my local club had a time limit for the club time trials of 30 minutes for a 10 mile TT and 75 minutes for a 25 mile TT. Anybody slower was actively discouraged from taking part but plenty of help and advice was on offer to get faster so that you could meet these limits.

The idea was that if you couldn’t meet these limits then you hadn’t really done much preparation and you were being disrespectful to the people who had given up time and made the effort to organise the event.

This was in the mid 1970s and many of the younger members were riding the bike they went to school/work on, I used a 5 speed Raleigh Shadow which could have had a sticker saying “Guaranteed built with gas pipe plain gauge tubes, forks and stays”.

I know from the replies that this notion is not going be agreed on, but I can’t get away from the respect the event idea especially as to enter the London Marathon you have had a year to train or possibly more as they event is over subscribed.

This notion of preparation for the event applies to the argument offered that I was suggesting that only elite runners should be allowed to run.

Anybody who can run a 3-4 hour marathon has clearly put a great deal of time and effort into preparation, to see how fast they can go given the time constraints of being a non professional athlete is not disrespectful to the event.

A number of replies have stated that they have been quite happy with the organised aspect of an Audax being wound down after the stated end of the event, although there is some room for interpretation as to when the LM ended.

I understand that a number of the replies take the view that completion at any speed is an achievement worthy of the entry.

After reading the replies I get the impression that the respect the event idea, as I express it, is is not one that has a great deal of support here.

Bye


Ian

Edit: Added this link, London Marathon Trust Accounts https://lmct.s3.amazonaws.com/live/...d-62d38b560d1a/reports_statements_30sep18.pdf makes interesting reading.

 

[Milkfloat]

@IanSmithCSE When you start invoking morals and attitudes from the 70s about inclusivity then it really shows how out of touch you are from the modern world. Have you considered that the people participating at or over the Marathon cut off time could have put in far more time and preparation than those running significantly faster? Perhaps they have medical issues, a last minute injury, running as support with a friend or even in the case highlighted running as an official pacemaker.

I don’t think my local running club has a unique attitude, so when this topic was being being discussed I was not surprised that the overwhelming feeling was of outrage and sadness that anybody could be made to feel excluded and the more people running the better. Incidentally, the same my cycling club feel about getting people on bikes. Many people experience enough barriers to prevent them getting into activities without the small mindedness of others, particularly of those who would not participate themselves.

 

[winjim]

I suspect that we have exhausted this topic and as I started it I will, possibly, close it. :-)

Because nobody agrees with you, you are threatening to shut down the discussion? How about if you've nothing more to say and don't wish to discuss things further you just put the thread on ignore and let other people carry on the conversation? There are some interesting points of debate and others may feel they want to contribute.

 

[Slick]

Thankfully we have moved on from the attitudes of the 70's and there are now lots of good people looking to remove barriers to sport despite the odd failings this thread highlighted.

 

[Andy in Germany]

When I was a schoolboy my local club had a time limit for the club time trials of 30 minutes for a 10 mile TT and 75 minutes for a 25 mile TT. Anybody slower was actively discouraged from taking part but plenty of help and advice was on offer to get faster so that you could meet these limits.

I see the logic here, for most people. In the 70's the idea of inclusion for people who had physical disabilities or illnesses wasn't really there, of course.

The idea was that if you couldn’t meet these limits then you hadn’t really done much preparation and you were being disrespectful to the people who had given up time and made the effort to organise the event.

I can’t get away from the respect the event idea especially as to enter the London Marathon you have had a year to train or possibly more as they event is over subscribed.

This notion of preparation for the event applies to the argument offered that I was suggesting that only elite runners should be allowed to run.

Anybody who can run a 3-4 hour marathon has clearly put a great deal of time and effort into preparation, to see how fast they can go given the time constraints of being a non professional athlete is not disrespectful to the event.

You then appear to make an assumption, that a person with a physical disability who can't run as fast as someone without, would not have put in as much preparation as one who was able bodied. I'd suggest this is a false assumption. in fact that the opposite could be the case. In fact having worked with people with disabilities I know how much extra effort they have to make to be included.

Anyone with a pacemaker or other impairment has clearly thought vary carefully about joining something as gruelling as a marathon, and would have had to overcome a lo of extra physical and psychological barriers to even turn up at the starting line. To then abuse them or demand they 'hurry up' is highly disrespectful to them and to the many people who will be supporting them.

It goes against everything we are told 'sport' should be about. I thought it was all about inclusion and doing your best, setting personal goals et c?*

It seems a number of people now feel it's socially acceptable to make assumptions and use abusive language in a public place towards people who aren't as strong as they "should" be, who don't quite make the grade and are a bit slow. Why is someone taking 7.5 hours assumed not to have put in a lot of time and preparation? How do we know how much preparation they need or have attempted? How do we know they haven't trained all year? Who are we to assume we know?

This attitude seems to be becoming generally acceptable, not just towards people running slowly in a Marathon: it can be applied to anyone with a disability, or who is unemployed, or has psychological issues such as depression. It can be applied to the deaf teenager who wanted to join a theatre company I was part of, meaning we had to change the whole way we worked on stage in order to allow him to be part of our work, or the kindergarten teacher with Narcolepsy who needs to sleep for an hour at midday, meaning the other teachers have to work around this, or the plumber with severe depression who has to fight to get up and work for four hours in a therapy unit.

These people aren't 'entitled': they just want to live their lives like the rest of us, to be included in what the rest of us do.

What concerns me is that the incidents at the London Marathon are the tip of a much bigger iceberg: a rather unpleasant attitude of exclusion and a lack of understanding, or empathy.

*Not according to my sport teachers who were very much of the "If you're too slow you're a waste of space" school of thought, which is probably why I now have no interest in any organised sports. Well done teachers.

 

[DRHysted]

Year before last I followed on Twitter a person training for the London marathon who suffered from MS. His training was hard and all over the place depending on how his body reacted. I don’t remember what time he finished but the very fact he did is one hell of an achievement and I would never think about caustic comments.
I have completed a marathon (not London) and dispite over a year of training everything went wrong on the day, resulting in a lot of walking from mile 19 and an unplanned lay down at mile 22 (finished at 4:27). Anyone who completes something as gruelling as a marathon has my respect.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I suspect that we have exhausted this topic and as I started it I will, possibly, close it. :-)

Exhausted it? Your contribution has been limited to just two posts digging yourself into a deeper hole, with no attempt to discuss the real issues described in the report.

You've rightly been given a roasting for your outdated attitude and wilful misreading of the article and that's why you want to close this down, to save yourself from further embarrassment.


Instead of scuttling off back under your rock, why not address the real key points in this story and your misinterpretation of it:

1. The runners were too slow.

This is clearly a lie, as the article you quoted makes clear.

2. They displayed entitlement.
How, by expecting the agreed support to still be in place as they reached the feeding stations within the officially set pace?
They were properly entitled to expect that but you use the term as a pejorative.

3. They were disrespectful of the fast competitors.
Another falsehood, as they were accepted on their abilities by the organisers who even arranged a pace setter for them.

You have not made a single criticism of the abuse levelled at the runners, why is that?
Do you agree with it or condemn it? It was the main thrust of the story so it seems strange you wouldn't comment on that aspect.

 

[roadrash]

so you want to close the thread because its lonely up there on your high horse, ...just how does one close a thread anyway, wouldn't be much of a forum if people could just close threads at random because people don't agree with them.

 

[stephec]

so you want to close the thread because its lonely up there on your high horse, ...just how does one close a thread anyway, wouldn't be much of a forum if people could just close threads at random because people don't agree with them.

It's his ball and he's taking it home.

 

[Mo1959]

Just as an example, although I was never a good runner I regularly trotted round half marathons in 1 hour 52ish. Roll on several years and lumbar disc herniations and sciatic episodes. I went out this morning and did just over 13 miles and it took me 2 hours 27 minutes. So much slower than I used to be and possibly outside a half marathon cut off time, but I have been putting in as much, if not more effort than I used to. It's all relevant as you don't know what trials and tribulations, injuries people have gone through to even make it to the starting line.

 

[stephec]

Just as an example, although I was never a good runner I regularly trotted round half marathons in 1 hour 52ish. Roll on several years and lumbar disc herniations and sciatic episodes. I went out this morning and did just over 13 miles and it took me 2 hours 27 minutes. So much slower than I used to be and possibly outside a half marathon cut off time, but I have been putting in as much, if not more effort than I used to. It's all relevant as you don't know what trials and tribulations, injuries people have gone through to even make it to the starting line.

At 2:27 there's going to be a lot of people behind you in a typical half, just looking at a few running groups on Facebook proves that.

 

[DRHysted]

Just read the woman’s blog.
The fact that the water stations had been removed is not only worrying but dangerous.
I believe my unplanned lay down at mile 22 was due to dehydration and lack of fuel.
The rest of it was absolutely disgusting, changing the cut off whilst there were people still out there!
Really stresses the point that I don’t want to take part in the London marathon.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Indeed if you have a 7.5 hour pace maker you respect that. The last ones on the course should have just as good an experience (as the those first on the course) from the organisers .

 

[Dogtrousers]

I have completed a marathon (not London) and dispite over a year of training everything went wrong on the day, resulting in a lot of walking from mile 19 and an unplanned lay down at mile 22 (finished at 4:27). Anyone who completes something as gruelling as a marathon has my respect.

Sounds uncannily like my marathon although I never actually physically lay down. If I had I would never have finished. I was a pretty experienced runner in terms of halves and 10ks at the time but the marathon was a whole new level. I think the trick is to accept that you'll mess up first time and improve in your next one. ... Or just say "never again"

 

[DRHysted]

Sounds uncannily like my marathon although I never actually physically lay down. If I had I would never have finished. I was a pretty experienced runner in terms of halves and 10ks at the time but the marathon was a whole new level. I think the trick is to accept that you'll mess up first time and improve in your next one. ... Or just say "never again"

It was a day of errors and not all of them were mine.
To start with the car park I was directed to was 15 minutes walk from the start. I started in a group too slow and got bogged down trying to make my way through. I found that we were sharing the closed roads with walkers, horse riders, cyclists, and cars. The temperature was too hot and the water stations were too far apart. On the day they changed from their advertised gels to an energy drink which I couldn’t use as I didn’t know if my digestive system would react or not. Due to it being rural there was very little crowds to support you. At the end after almost getting physical with a helper who couldn’t seem to understand that I didn’t want a banana, I slowly walked back to my car to get some money, got there (it took longer than 15 minutes) and just didn’t have it in me to return to the race village so drove home (via a drive through).

I vowed that I’ve done the marathon and don’t ever need to repeat it, my physiotherapist agrees!