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[Nomadski]

@Nomadski its a tiagra cassette
http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/ev/EV-CS-4600-3143.pdf

Hmph, was under the impression the bike was supposed to be full 105! At least that explains that. Im going to hazard a guess looking at that PDF manual, I should be ok with a 12-30T cassette too? Have been wondering about a larger ring for the really bad climbs I have got lined up. My front is a 50-34 (unless the bike shop lied about that too!)

Without going into too much detail, would it be worth it in terms of any lost combinations? I do end up on the biggest cog at the back frequently uphills and sometimes want a little extra gearing to help me.



So at one point had the Synapse in quite a few pieces (for me anyway!).

Got my silver steed back in shape with the new chain, and a clean cassette, and gave the dear a good proper clean up, so she is looking as well as she has ever looked.

Marks and grazes wont clean off, especially the horrible ones there on the chainring, but am happy enough with my first strip down and clean.

May even go out for a ride tomorrow to test I've done the brakes right! :S

 

[Nigelnaturist]

Should worry to much about marks on the chainrings as the wear out over time. Brakes arn't 105's either.
Gearing, get a triple change left shifter front RD and a new chainset
Depends what you want, I like a close ratio cassette, but I am struggling find the right setup, the 50/38/26 12-27 I had worked well enough even the drop from 38 to 26, but it doesn't work so well on the 12-23 cassette.
Your RD looks like a short cage (SS) so a 50-34 (16th gap) and a 12-30 (18th) total of 34 should be ok http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/um/UM-5Y40A-002-00-ENG.pdf. If its the 12-28 you are likely to notice the jump from 21-23 to 21-24 possibly not so the 24-27 below 21 its the same, if it the 11-25 its the same from 12- to 21, then like before, I found the 21-24 quite a jump, the 24-27 not so bad, the 21-23-25-28 is a good combination I think.

 

[Nomadski]

Should worry to much about marks on the chainrings as the wear out over time. Brakes arn't 105's either.
Gearing, get a triple change left shifter front RD and a new chainset
Depends what you want, I like a close ratio cassette, but I am struggling find the right setup, the 50/38/26 12-27 I had worked well enough even the drop from 38 to 26, but it doesn't work so well on the 12-23 cassette.
Your RD looks like a short cage (SS) so a 50-34 (16th gap) and a 12-30 (18th) total of 34 should be ok http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/um/UM-5Y40A-002-00-ENG.pdf. If its the 12-28 you are likely to notice the jump from 21-23 to 21-24 possibly not so the 24-27 below 21 its the same, if it the 11-25 its the same from 12- to 21, then like before, I found the 21-24 quite a jump, the 24-27 not so bad, the 21-23-25-28 is a good combination I think.

Heh yeah I knew about the brakes being Tektro ones, I understood they were fine so never bothered getting them upgraded.

So you think moving from my 12-28 setup to a 12-30 would give me that extra gear up the big hills, but I would have a steep jump from 21-24? Will have to focus on that ring changeover when I ride tomorrow to see how bad a jump it is now, and if I could sacrifice that one.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Heh yeah I knew about the brakes being Tektro ones, I understood they were fine so never bothered getting them upgraded.

So you think moving from my 12-28 setup to a 12-30 would give me that extra gear up the big hills, but I would have a steep jump from 21-24? Will have to focus on that ring changeover when I ride tomorrow to see how bad a jump it is now, and if I could sacrifice that one.

@Nomadski

I have similar combo ie 12-30 Tiagra cassette (was 12-28) and 46/34 front (was 46/36 but I wanted a smaller front ring).

34 x 30 is really good for my abilities and ambitions re surrounding hills and much better than my original 36x28 lowest.

Tbh I don't notice the jumps on the 12-30 at all - they seem perfectly fine to me.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

@Nomadski

This (scroll down a bit and on the right of the page) shows the sprocket sizes for the three different Tigra cassettes:

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/shimano-tiagra-cs-4600-10-speed-cassette/aid:519986

 

[Nomadski]

@Nomadski

I have similar combo ie 12-30 Tiagra cassette (was 12-28) and 46/34 front (was 46/36 but I wanted a smaller front ring).

34 x 30 is really good for my abilities and ambitions re surrounding hills and much better than my original 36x28 lowest.

Tbh I don't notice the jumps on the 12-30 at all - they seem perfectly fine to me.

Hmmm, just checked out Wiggles Q&A page and people are asking similar questions. Apparently you need a mid sized rear dérailleur cage for a 30T cassette, the short one that I have (105 5700) possibly won't accommodate the extra width.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Hmmm, just checked out Wiggles Q&A page and people are asking similar questions. Apparently you need a mid sized rear dérailleur cage for a 30T cassette, the short one that I have (105 5700) possibly won't accommodate the extra width.

@Nomadski

I think the mid length thing gets confusing!

I got very confused with it all tbh. AFAIK there is short cage and long cage. Short is for doubles and long is for triples.

When I was Googling I found that many people were running the short cage 105 5700 with a 12-30. Apparently Shimano are conservative with their capacities.

I went ahead and ordered a 12-30 thinking my RD was a 105 5700 and I found out it was a 105 5701 when I was fitting the new cassette chain! The 5701 goes up to 32 apparently.

Pretty sure you won't have a problem with 12-30 and the 5700 (short cage).

I'd dump the query into 'Technical' if I were you and see what the guys/girls with all the real expertise have to say.

 

[Nomadski]

@Nomadski

I think the mid length thing gets confusing!

I got very confused with it all tbh. AFAIK there is short cage and long cage. Short is for doubles and long is for triples.

When I was Googling I found that many people were running the short cage 105 5700 with a 12-30. Apparently Shimano are conservative with their capacities.

I went ahead and ordered a 12-30 thinking my RD was a 105 5700 and I found out it was a 105 5701 when I was fitting the new cassette chain! The 5701 goes up to 32 apparently.

Pretty sure you won't have a problem with 12-30 and the 5700 (short cage).

I'd dump the query into 'Technical' if I were you and see what the guys/girls with all the real expertise have to say.

Thanks Spokey, good advice, seems like its worth the punt, its only £12 so. Think I will drop a question in there too, just for some reassurance.

 

[Nigelnaturist]

@SpokeyDokey this also shows how they are clustered http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/um/UM-5Y40A-002-00-ENG.pdf, though rose is where I usually look first.

@Nomadski this is your current set up__________And what your looking at doing.

__________________

My current

As you can see the same range, but a lot closer grouping, also if you look the difference between you two rings as a ratio is pretty much the same as my inner and middle.
If you look at the percentage changes you will have I would say you will notice them, I missed the 18th between 17-19, but where the changes are are not really critical as they will be gears you are climbing in, where bigger changes are usually needed compared with spinning on the flat, which there is quite a bit of round here. This is the reason I like a triple (don't care what proper cyclists say) I have a good road range, plus low gearing for hills, this is why I would love the 12-25 11sp as a triple. also remember I have the 12-27 I can put back on if I am going to be doing some hills. Which gives me a range from 25-110".

 

[Nomadski]

@SpokeyDokey this also shows how they are clustered http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/um/UM-5Y40A-002-00-ENG.pdf, though rose is where I usually look first.

@Nomadski this is your current set up__________And what your looking at doing.
View attachment 83507 __________________ View attachment 83508

My current
View attachment 83509

As you can see the same range, but a lot closer grouping, also if you look the difference between you two rings as a ratio is pretty much the same as my inner and middle.
If you look at the percentage changes you will have I would say you will notice them, I missed the 18th between 17-19, but where the changes are are not really critical as they will be gears you are climbing in, where bigger changes are usually needed compared with spinning on the flat, which there is quite a bit of round here. This is the reason I like a triple (don't care what proper cyclists say) I have a good road range, plus low gearing for hills, this is why I would love the 12-25 11sp as a triple. also remember I have the 12-27 I can put back on if I am going to be doing some hills. Which gives me a range from 25-110".

I'm not sure how to read the table bar the teeth number down the left and the chainring numbers near the top? What are the numbers the matrix is giving out? And what do the percentages down the right, and at the top mean?

 

[Deleted member 18052]

Hey all,

Back again, as its starting to get a bit warmer heh!
Just a little spin to try and get back into it: https://www.strava.com/activities/272970275

Daz

 

[Nigelnaturist]

This is the RD-5700 as @SpokeyDokey says the RD3701 goes to 32th
Both the SS and GS will both do 30th however the SS can only do that range on a double both compact and normal. In theory when I change my moddle ring to a 28th is should work with a SS only fly is the recommended front 16th max, however it says the max of the FD is 20th mine is currently 24.
In short a 12-30 should work with a 5700 SS it will work with a 5700 GS or 5701 GS

 

[Nigelnaturist]

I'm not sure how to read the table bar the teeth number down the left and the chainring numbers near the top? What are the numbers the matrix is giving out? And what do the percentages down the right, and at the top mean?

Sorry the main numbers are gear inches, and the percentages are the change from one gear to the next. Ignore the colour coding, normal I highlight gears in red you wouldn't use. The lower the percentage the less noticeable the change.

 

[Nomadski]

Sorry the main numbers are gear inches, and the percentages are the change from one gear to the next. Ignore the colour coding, normal I highlight gears in red you wouldn't use. The lower the percentage the less noticeable the change.

Ah the percentages make sense now. Useful.

I've asked in the tech help section and already I'm getting nodding heads, but I need to consider chain length, which according to the chain length calculator linked in that thread, I will need a 134.62cm chain length.

Quite annoying as I've just put a new shiny chain on this afternoon and cut it down to the original chain length!

 

[Nigelnaturist]

Hmmm, just checked out Wiggles Q&A page and people are asking similar questions. Apparently you need a mid sized rear dérailleur cage for a 30T cassette, the short one that I have (105 5700) possibly won't accommodate the extra width.

Be-careful using this as cassette width is different to cassette range, the width is more usually used with the actual width of the cassette i.e a 7sp is 31.9mm a 10sp is 37.2mm, what you are really looking at is length, the RD can cope with the extra length, for example the required length of chain to cover 30-110" compared with 35-11" the difference being the large rear sprocket, how ever width can refer to if an RD can cope with the width as mentioned regarding cassette width, for example my 7/8sp Sora worked on my 9sp setup up a max 27th sprocket, never tried on the 10sp but as there is only 0.7mm difference in width between 9 and 10sp it might well work with my current setup.