Should I buy a tiny, less-than-ideal flat?

[Cycleops]

You hang in @wafter , you're in a strong position and you can pick and choose. If the seller doesn't like it he can go hang.

 

[wafter]

You hang in @wafter , you're in a strong position and you can pick and choose. If the seller doesn't like it he can go hang.

Thanks

Have pretty much forgotten about the small flat now and am more pragmatic about the nicer one. Feb's Nationwide house price index was published today and prices are now falling year-on-year; down 1.1% on last Feb and around 3.7% peak from August. Added to other factors this is making the long game look increasing more worthwhile / sensible..

 

[srw]

dreaming of buying a flat in Oxford so that I might return to the simple, low-outgoing, cycle-centric lifestyle I crave to maintain my mental and physical health.

In *Oxford*??!!!

Crumbs. It's just about the most expensive place in the country to buy property relative to local incomes.

Even going to Bicester or Witney or Thame will give you much more chance. Going properly further afield will help a lot. The cash price of a pokey studio flat in Oxford will buy you a decent house in the country near [insert your favourite Northern, Welsh or Scottish city], with enough left over to live modestly for a year or so while you establish yourself and find a new job.

 

[Jameshow]

In *Oxford*??!!!

Crumbs. It's just about the most expensive place in the country to buy property relative to local incomes.

Even going to Bicester or Witney or Thame will give you much more chance. Going properly further afield will help a lot. The cash price of a pokey studio flat in Oxford will buy you a decent house in the country near [insert your favourite Northern, Welsh or Scottish city], with enough left over to live modestly for a year or so while you establish yourself and find a new job.

I think he has family commitments to take into consideration.....

 

[wafter]

In *Oxford*??!!!

Crumbs. It's just about the most expensive place in the country to buy property relative to local incomes.

Even going to Bicester or Witney or Thame will give you much more chance. Going properly further afield will help a lot. The cash price of a pokey studio flat in Oxford will buy you a decent house in the country near [insert your favourite Northern, Welsh or Scottish city], with enough left over to live modestly for a year or so while you establish yourself and find a new job.

Thanks - I'm well aware of all of those points. I'm far more concerned by the lifestyle, social and cultural opportunities available to me than the property itself (well, certainly its size).

I don't want to be a prisoner in my own home; going slowly mental wasting what's left of my life because I despise the area I live in and have no desire to interact with it or those who reside locally - as is the case currently.

I've grown up around grotty, culturally-barren, overdeveloped little market / latterly commuter towns like Bicester and would genuinely rather put my head in an oven than consider living out the rest of my years in such a place. Granted, I'd prefer a bit more space than most postage-stamp flats in Oxford would afford, however I don't need that much and with space comes the greater burden of increased maintenance costs, energy bills, council tax..

I'm well aware that my budget could buy me a very nice three-bed house in rural Wales for example; probably with money to spare.. but other than the glorious countryside, what else could that offer? Hundreds of miles away from friends and family, limited opportunities to socialise, a ballache to obtain basic provisions, the need to find a new job when I'm basically unemployable and realistically the need to drive pretty much everywhere.

I've lived in Oxford on and off for many years, and these have absolutely been the least-miserable of my life.. thanks largely I think to how most neccessities can easily be realised by bike.. which contributes enormously to maintaining my mental and physical health. I know what to expect, love what the city can offer and short of moving to Utrecht (which if course is never going to happen) can't think of anywhere else I'd rather live.

Ta for your input, though

 

[chris667]

As someone who is a landlord in that part of the country, I agree that the idea of BTL being sustainable in places like Oxford is not really viable. I am really delighted I'm not one of those people who thought being highly leveraged was sensible.

We'll be entering the age of the corporate landlord soon. People who currently complain about private landlords have a real shock coming.

As to you, @wafter , keep patient and being the person who puts the lowest offer in. It sounds that things are rough but you're on the right track. As previously mentioned go and make friends with as many estate agents as you can. In the past, some of mine have given me a call and said things like "This nice young couple have split up, they're really desperate to sell, and make a really low offer". Unscrupulous business, but there you go.

I lived on a boat for 12 years. A lot of that time was spent in Oxford. Don't be tempted to do that. Terrible investment unless you really want to do it. Park homes can be OK if you don't want to pass it on, but be very careful of the landlords.

 

[Cycleops]

Agree about Bicester

 

[rockyroller]

might want to think optimistically. maybe find a place with room for company?

when I met Wifey she had a small "studio apartment" basically a small bedroom w/ a doorway (no door) to an eat-in kitchen. off the kitchen was a full bath w/tub & back stairs to an unfenced yard. I proceeded to dop off a cat, in addition to hers & an aquarium full of fish. I spent a lot of time there but never moved in. it was a little crowded w/ her cat, may cat, the fish & me showing up quite a lot. didn't take long for us to move in together, somewhere else

reminds me, George Carlin used to have a funny bit about "room for your stuff" he might have used a different word hehe

 

[AndyRM]

I've only skimmed through this biblical thread, but it seems as though you are making the right decision in hanging fire, so well done.

I have always had 3 criteria when buying a house:

1 - Outdoor space (not necessarily a garden, but a park or something)
2 - Near public transport
3 - Near the coast

(A shop is a nice to have bonus).

I have been lucky in that the three places I've bought, all three requirements have been there, but I'd be willing to sacrifice one if the other two were options.

 

[wafter]

As someone who is a landlord in that part of the country, I agree that the idea of BTL being sustainable in places like Oxford is not really viable. I am really delighted I'm not one of those people who thought being highly leveraged was sensible.

We'll be entering the age of the corporate landlord soon. People who currently complain about private landlords have a real shock coming.

As to you, @wafter , keep patient and being the person who puts the lowest offer in. It sounds that things are rough but you're on the right track. As previously mentioned go and make friends with as many estate agents as you can. In the past, some of mine have given me a call and said things like "This nice young couple have split up, they're really desperate to sell, and make a really low offer". Unscrupulous business, but there you go.

I lived on a boat for 12 years. A lot of that time was spent in Oxford. Don't be tempted to do that. Terrible investment unless you really want to do it. Park homes can be OK if you don't want to pass it on, but be very careful of the landlords.

Thanks for your thoughts - it's interesting to hear an opinion from the other side of the fence, while I appreciate your points about house boats and park homes; had a sniff around both but came to the same conclusion as yourself. Again; good to hear this from someone with experience.

I hear what you're saying about corporate landlords; equally given the appalling state of some privately-owned rentals I've viewed in the past I think this could certainly have its advantages too.

I certainly plan to try and play the agents at their own game. The recent situation has been "interesting" - of course they were my best friends up until the point they got a higher offer, then total radio silence. Not a surprise of course as 99% of them seem to be deeply unscrupulous and never would I credit any of them with a gram of morality. On the up side, as someone who's always concerned with treating people well (even if I don't always manage it) it's refreshing to feel absolutely no moral obligations when it comes to dealing with these "people".

As it stands both properites I've viewed recently remain on the market. Available inventory is pretty static but there is turnover; not sure how much is stuff that's actually sold versus stuff being pulled from the market. Only one property I've saved out of casual interest is currently listed as SSTC.

I'm seeing a lot of reductions and flat prices seem lower relative to the time I've been looking; with a lot of stuff hovering around the £200k mark. That said, unsurprisingly the stuff at the bottom of the market is pretty grotty and seems typical of the bulk of the stock coming to market currently.. making me think it's coming from landlords attempting to offload the dregs of their stuff first.

There's not a whole lot about that appeals currently - which on the one hand is somewhat demoralising; on the other makes it an easy decision to sit it out and see how the current situation goes.

I guess I all I can do is wait, save, and try to resist the growing urges to throw myself in front of a bus.

Agree about Bicester

Lol - I know it's a hole but I'm surprised that its reputation has reached Ghana

might want to think optimistically. maybe find a place with room for company?

when I met Wifey she had a small "studio apartment" basically a small bedroom w/ a doorway (no door) to an eat-in kitchen. off the kitchen was a full bath w/tub & back stairs to an unfenced yard. I proceeded to dop off a cat, in addition to hers & an aquarium full of fish. I spent a lot of time there but never moved in. it was a little crowded w/ her cat, may cat, the fish & me showing up quite a lot. didn't take long for us to move in together, somewhere else

reminds me, George Carlin used to have a funny bit about "room for your stuff" he might have used a different word hehe

Thanks for the thought, although I think you misunderstand my situation. I'm struggling to afford a tiny one-bed flat, so the liklihood of being able to get something larger is extremely unlikely. I have however considered the potential for a second bedroom and getting in a lodger, however while the additional money would be welcome, one of the largest draws is somewhere I can be away from others as I don't do well being around people constantly, so in reality I think this would be a bad idea.

I've only skimmed through this biblical thread, but it seems as though you are making the right decision in hanging fire, so well done.

I have always had 3 criteria when buying a house:

1 - Outdoor space (not necessarily a garden, but a park or something)
2 - Near public transport
3 - Near the coast

(A shop is a nice to have bonus).

I have been lucky in that the three places I've bought, all three requirements have been there, but I'd be willing to sacrifice one if the other two were options.

Thanks - appreciate the encouragement

Totally agree about outdoor space; locally a shared garden is as good as it's going to get, but Oxford's small and pretty green, while the areas I'm looking in are never far away from decent green spaces. Public transport concerns me less as it's pretty crap and 95% of the time I'd seek to travel under my own steam. I like the coast but Oxford's about as far away as you'll get in the British isles

As usual I have my own set of boxes to tick and of course can never get them all.. the difficulty IMO is in recognising which I can live without.


Anyway, following the initial flurry of hope drawn from a couple of properties that precipitated this thread, moving is once more looking very much like a long-term goal... and tbh the state my head's in currently I very much doubt I'd be able to chase anything even were it available.

Thanks again for everyones' input

 

[albal]

How did you get on ? Nigh on 2 years since. Did you find something?

I read most of it. As i,m in a position of deciding to move closer to town . Then a place comes on the market.


It's near the coast
It has outside space, small garden.
Very close to train/ bus links.
It ticks most of the boxes.


A plus too is it's share of freehold. X3 flats .
I,ve put in an offer subject to selling my flat.
In my 60th year and this is all new. Never sold and bought a property. It's scary.

 

[Gunk]

. I reckon, as you do, that Oxford's got a little bit more price drift to come

since this comment was made in 2023 - prices, according to the office of national statistic, have risen in the city by 4.4%

but everyone is an expert!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

since this comment was made in 2023 - prices, according to the office of national statistic, have risen in the city by 4.4%

but everyone is an expert!

You've got the month-by-month price index info over the intervening 2 years I guess?

ETA
Out of curiosity I looked up those stats. I said, towards the end of Feb '23 that I thought that Oxford had a little bit more price drift to come. This is what happened:

Feb 2023	Mar 2023	Apr 2023	May 2023	Jun 2023	Jul 2023
0.3	-1.5	0.6	-1.5	-2.8	1.5

 

[wafter]

An update some two years later, if anyone’s interested...

I didn’t pursue the first flat for all the reasons discussed. As a base in the city for what I could likely have paid it would probably have made a sound choice, however I think I’d have struggled to have lived with its shortcomings for any length of time.

This one hobbled on for maybe another year on the market before it was evidently pulled.


I sniffed around the second flat and had a punt on a lowish offer which was rejected, however I sat on my hands and some months later they came back to me. I was on the fence as this one too was pretty compromised - acceptable size, decent split-level layout and in a reasonable area, but practically in the middle of the A34 so the shared garden was basically useless on account of road noise, which remained very obvious inside the flat even through the triple-glazing...

I pushed the price further when the agent approached me again and it eventually sold to someone else... which wasn’t terribly disappointing. It would have been nice in a better location, but then it would probably also have been beyond my budget too.

Interestingly this one sold for maybe 7% more than I could have got it for; really highlighting how absolutely desolate the market was in early 2023.


While flats appear to have been, err flat since 2016 in much of the SE it seems that 2023 was a particular trough in this market in Oxford – at least at the bottom where I was looking.

It looks like in recent years the lower end of the flat market has split. Decent stuff that’s actually appealing as somewhere to live has largely stayed flat in nominal terms, with recent sold prices typically fluctuating a few percent either side of what properties might have previously sold for from about 2016 onwards.

Conversely less-desirable stuff has really taken a beating – which I think is probably a reflection of the welcome exodus of landlords from the market (albeit leaving a trail of misery in their wake).

It seems that previously buy-to-let was propping up the grotty end of the market. Run-down properties in undesirable / high crime areas, stuff with high running costs or otherwise sub-optimal facets might have been temporarily acceptable to an option-starved rent-slave at a push, but are now struggling to sell.

I’m seeing more stuff listed at sub-£200k than I think I ever have over the past decade, with a lot of properties remaining on the market for over a year in some cases, many reductions and a fair bit returning to market having previously been “sold”.


Unfortunately this stagnant market is also plagued with low inventory, so even finding stuff worth looking at is a challenge and after the second flat fell through there was little else that warranted viewing for the rest of 2023. I did see a nice one-bed come up in late 2023 and thought I’d have a sniff around if the asking price was dropped... fully expecting this to happen given how the market had been to that point.

However, the market evidently changed around this time and along with another in the same development, flat no.3 quickly “sold” with no reductions to the asking. It seemed that everything worth having rapidly disappeared from the market in the last few months of the year; leaving me even more despondent.


Early 2024 saw a little more come to market, including the return of flat 3. This time I was more proactive and took a look - it ticked a lot of boxes and I made an offer. After some civilised haggling a price was agreed in March - 4% less than asking; 2% less than what the sellers has paid for it some three or four years earlier.

Nauseatingly long and convoluted story cut deservedly short, after nearly a bloody year of frustration, anxiety and exhaustion the purchase finally completed earlier this week


Unsurprisingly compromises have been made... The flat's small but generally well laid-out, well-appointed and modern with gas central heating / cooker. It has direct access from outside, its own "private" garden and off-road parking right outside. Service charge is reasonable and energy efficiency rating decent. It's 3.5-4 miles from the city centre but there's access by bike or foot almost entirely on cycle / tow paths or relatively quiet roads; while there's a bus stop right outside and the service isn't terrible.

The area's quiet, reasonably affluent and has by far the lowest crime rate of any of those I could have afforded. It's generally very green and close to both some largeish woods and the Thames path. Due to its location traffic is pretty light (by Oxford standards) and potential for development is limited. Everything I've looked at has been close enough to the ring road for noise to be ever-present to some degree; except here.

I've been watching the property market in the city for more than ten years and all factors considered I can honestly say there's nothing else within budget that I'd have preferred; so while not perfect I'm resolute that it's absolutely the best I could have got


I'm very much aware of how objectively lucky I am to be in this position; let alone considering my own limited capabilities. This has only been possible thanks to the generosity of my mother and help of the friends who for unfathomable reasons have kept me employed for the past four-plus years. I remain forever indebted to everyone who's contributed to making this happen.

All's not good yet as it needs furnishing before it's liveable-in, but for the first time in more years than I can remember it's given me hope that life can be something other than an utterly joyless, pointless grind. After four miserable years living at home as a child in an ageing man's body, this finally feels like a new dawn

 

[Jameshow]

Well done I'm hopefully following in your footsteps!

It will be a new start and a boost to your wellbeing!