Shared Space in Ashford

[John the Monkey]

...or the end of the world as we know it, if you read the Times.

http://www.howwedrive.com/2008/12/01/quieting-the-ring-road-shared-space-hits-it-big-in-ashford/

 

[Twenty Inch]

They got their photos the wrong way round.

It looks nice, but it will last about 2 weeks before 4x4 drivers and German Machtwagen owners just start barging their way around. The English psyche is too selfish and ignorant for nice fluffy Scandawegian space-sharing schemes.

 

[Will1985]

There will be chaos - well there has been for years already when we've been down to visit extended family there. The chavs (and there are a lot) will treat is as a racetrack.

Car drivers will clearly force their way. After an accident someone is bound to say that they interpreted another's facial expression as an invitation to move!

The ringroad was fine for the town in the 60s, but the later growth was unprecedented. IIRC, my grandfather had something to do with the design as a council roads planning officer.

 

[Twenty Inch]

It's a hardware fix for a fleshware problem. We need to educate people about behaving properly to each other in public, then we can do away with barriers and road markings.

 

[BentMikey]

That's never going to happen, because the nature of cars pushes our buttons in such a way that most people don't behave as well towards others as they would outside of the car.

I think it's a grand idea, and I'm interested in how the experiment works. I think it will too, going by elsewhere.

 

[John the Monkey]

I'd tend towards Will's take, myself - my personal feeliing is that the British motorist is too selfish, and too convinced of the cars superiority to take the claims of other road users on the shared space seriously. With that said, however, the research so far seems to say I'm wrong in that prejudice, and I hope that's the case, as the alternative seems to be an increasingly segregated transport system, focussed on allowing the motor vehicle to hurtle through towns at 10 mph over the limit.

There's another article on Vanderbilt's site describing a place in the states that cut down all the trees lining one particular road because they were dangerous to motorists exceeding the speed limit. (No one ever thought that it might be an idea to try and get them to obey the traffic law, it seems).

 

[Twenty Inch]

That's never going to happen, because the nature of cars pushes our buttons in such a way that most people don't behave as well towards others as they would outside of the car.

Not everywhere, they don't. Only in places where there's an overriding public discourse of selfishness, instant gratification, and I'm-all-right-Jack. In my experience, that's the UK and the USA, although Ireland is fast catching up, sadly.

I think it's a grand idea, and I'm interested in how the experiment works. I think it will too, going by elsewhere.

I think it's a great idea too, in societies where the thinking and behaviours are already in place to support it - Scandinavia and Holland have been mentioned. This initiative would work well in Spanish cities too. My point is that for this to work here, we'll need to change people's attitudes to sharing public space, to interacting with strangers and other vulnerable road users, to how they imagine themselves in public. If we want this to work now, we should have started 20 years ago. In those countries mentioned above, people behave more politely and with more grace to each other, whatever the street furniture. But not in England. And especially not in the South East.

However, I am willing to try it out, and as I live not far from Ashford, I'm happy to take a drive down there in a few months and see how it's progressing. I'll report back.

 

[Steve Austin]

I walked across this shared space twice today.

Hate to pop all the woeful balloons that folk are blowing up, but it was fine. cars gave way to me both times.
How about folk look for the positive in this development rather than the negative? Its a really good idea, that give everyone space to share. Its a bloody good idea, and its working!

 

[Twenty Inch]

I walked across this shared space twice today.

Hate to pop all the woeful balloons that folk are blowing up, but it was fine. cars gave way to me both times.
How about folk look for the positive in this development rather than the negative? Its a really good idea, that give everyone space to share. Its a bloody good idea, and its working!

I'd love to be proved wrong, honestly. My opinion of brits is just too low though (after living in Spain, Ireland, Germany and Russia).

 

[jonesy]

I'd love to be proved wrong, honestly. My opinion of brits is just too low though (after living in Spain, Ireland, Germany and Russia).

It isn't as if this is the first time any kind of 'shared space' idea has been tried here. There are plenty of places, particularly in older, pre- road safety audit, streets, as well as places like supermarket carparks, where vehicles and people mix and everyone expects to take more care than they do when they've got clearly defined priorities and segregation. I'd expect it to work as well here as anywhere else.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Again, I disagree. My (unscientific, unsupported) experience is that supermarket car parks are becoming more like streets, rather than vice-versa, with kids in hatchback and twunts in 4x4s expecting everyone to get out of their way, able-bodied people parking in disabled bays, and over-revving and heavy braking now the norm. In any event, a supermarket visit is quite clearly bounded in space and time, and therefore the change in behaviour necessary is limited. Your average Really Important And Stressed Driver is liable to find car-park style driving too much on a limitless, unbounded basis.

Again, I'd love to be proved wrong, I just think that UK society is too fragmented, too selfish and too individualistic for this to work here. In other, kinder, more homogeneous and polite societies, yes, here, no.

 

[MartinC]

Again, I disagree. My (unscientific, unsupported) experience is that supermarket car parks are becoming more like streets, rather than vice-versa, with kids in hatchback and twunts in 4x4s expecting everyone to get out of their way, able-bodied people parking in disabled bays, and over-revving and heavy braking now the norm. In any event, a supermarket visit is quite clearly bounded in space and time, and therefore the change in behaviour necessary is limited. Your average Really Important And Stressed Driver is liable to find car-park style driving too much on a limitless, unbounded basis.

Again, I'd love to be proved wrong, I just think that UK society is too fragmented, too selfish and too individualistic for this to work here. In other, kinder, more homogeneous and polite societies, yes, here, no.

Unfortunately I agree. I'd love to be proved wrong and it's clearly going to be interesting to see what happens. One the things that will be crucial is how the authorities and the insurance companies deal with any incidents that happen. They need to make a mental leap too.

 

[dellzeqq]

There's another article on Vanderbilt's site describing a place in the states that cut down all the trees lining one particular road because they were dangerous to motorists exceeding the speed limit. (No one ever thought that it might be an idea to try and get them to obey the traffic law, it seems).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1425829.stm

 

[CotterPin]

Again, I disagree. My (unscientific, unsupported) experience is that supermarket car parks are becoming more like streets, rather than vice-versa, with kids in hatchback and twunts in 4x4s expecting everyone to get out of their way, able-bodied people parking in disabled bays, and over-revving and heavy braking now the norm. In any event, a supermarket visit is quite clearly bounded in space and time, and therefore the change in behaviour necessary is limited. Your average Really Important And Stressed Driver is liable to find car-park style driving too much on a limitless, unbounded basis.

Again, I'd love to be proved wrong, I just think that UK society is too fragmented, too selfish and too individualistic for this to work here. In other, kinder, more homogeneous and polite societies, yes, here, no.

Has there been any research done on injuries and fatalities in supermarket carparks?

I have to say I am not as convinced it is as bad as you make out,Twenty Inch, in the same way that I am not convinced the roads, as they currently are, are as bad as they sometimes appear. For every person who passes you too close on the road or every driver in a supermarket carpark who revs their engine there are hundreds of others who either cause no trouble at all or go out of their way to be courteous to others.

 

[snorri]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1425829.stm

dated July 2001.

There are still lots of tree lined routes on mainland Europe, so I think we can take it they have seen the light since this report was filed.