Selecting a Wheel Builder and Components

[Debade]

Hi,

On a recent 350 mile tour, my Bontrager rear wheel began to separate at the brake line. It has served me well for 20,000 miles, mostly fully loaded touring. My wife has significantly more mileage on her Velocity Atlas wheels which continue to perform. They are about 17 years old. Mine are 6 years old So, I am in the market for a new wheel. But, I would like some advice about how to select a wheel builder and I am open to wheel selection thoughts.

It seems like a real art to build a quality wheel if one reads the various posts, but I want to be sure I am not making too much of it. Right now, I am considering a Velocity Atlas 700 rim with 36 spokes, Shimano Deore hub which is the same one that came with my Trek 520 (If mine is still OK, I may use it but it seems given its age and miles it would be wise to replace), and DT Swiss Champion spokes. My goal is durability and not speed. I do not want to hitch hike again to the closest bike store as a result of a broken wheel.

So, for the type of wheel I am looking for, how much difference does a wheel builder make? Can I simply go to my LBS and expect a good/acceptable job? Or is the art of building a wheel something that is likely beyond the ability of the LBS mechanic? (I can certainly find out their background before committing to the build. Or, I can do an online purchase and mail older at a bike store in my old hometown that I feel confident in their wheel building abilities. But adjustments and other support will not be possible).

Thoughts/suggestions? I am in CT, USA in case this is helpful.

Thanks

 

[raleighnut]

Ask the wheelbuilder if he can lace the wheel to a 4 cross pattern instead of 3 cross, if you get a blank look then the builder probably doesn't know what they're doing.

The advantage of 4 cross is a stronger wheel with better load carrying capabilities.

 

[Ian H]

My preference for a strong touring wheel is DT Alpine III triple-butted spokes. A short 13g section means they're a tight fit at the flange, so less chance of fatigue-inducing movement. (Most if not all hubs nowadays are drilled for ease of assembly, which means that yer standard 14g spokes are a loose fit.).

3x or 4x (personally, looking at raleighnut's pic above, I wouldn't build 4x on a large-flange hub.)

 

[Bonefish Blues]

With the dollar being so strong, you could do a great deal worse than have a conversation with Spa Cycles over here and even potentially order from them - their handbuilt wheelsets are notably good value, and they are touring specialists. In any event, you'd get some very straightforward advice and recommendations.

 

[raleighnut]

My preference for a strong touring wheel is DT Alpine III triple-butted spokes. A short 13g section means they're a tight fit at the flange, so less chance of fatigue-inducing movement. (Most if not all hubs nowadays are drilled for ease of assembly, which means that yer standard 14g spokes are a loose fit.).

3x or 4x (personally, looking at raleighnut's pic above, I wouldn't build 4x on a large-flange hub.)

Not my picture, just a random one 'nicked' off t'internet and TBH it doesn't look too bad to me.

The funny thing is large flange hubs are more suited to 4X than smaller hubs which can suffer with clearance problems with the spoke ends.

 

[raleighnut]

With the dollar being so strong, you could do a great deal worse than have a conversation with Spa Cycles over here and even potentially order from them - their handbuilt wheelsets are notably good value, and they are touring specialists. In any event, you'd get some very straightforward advice and recommendations.

You might end up with a wheel with straight guage spokes on the drive side and double butted on the NDS unless they've changed their preferred build on touring rear wheels.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Every wheelbuilder I've come across over the years has strong opinions on the right way to build a specific wheel for a specific application, and, if you talk to three or four about your needs you rapidly discover the views are often mutually exclusive!.

DCRWheels builds bombproof wheels ime. But he's in UK so may be no use. He's not cheap but he is great vfm. I use him on the basis that he and his output are well liked by folk in here whose opinions I respect. I use him because he explains pros and cons and offers options for each build and explains them in plain English. He keeps his delivery promises, and his wheels are astoundingly true.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Ask the wheelbuilder if he can lace the wheel to a 4 cross pattern instead of 3 cross, if you get a blank look then the builder probably doesn't know what they're doing.

The advantage of 4 cross is a stronger wheel with better load carrying capabilities.

View attachment 361395

Why?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

My preference for a strong touring wheel is DT Alpine III triple-butted spokes. A short 13g section means they're a tight fit at the flange, so less chance of fatigue-inducing movement. (Most if not all hubs nowadays are drilled for ease of assembly, which means that yer standard 14g spokes are a loose fit.).

3x or 4x (personally, looking at raleighnut's pic above, I wouldn't build 4x on a large-flange hub.)

No. It isn't the fit in the hub that causes fatigue, but the cantilever at the bend. It exists whether the spoke fits tightly or not. Spoke tension prevents relative movement between spoke and flange, no matter how thin the spoke. Double-butted is better than straight gauge not because the butts are thicker but because the shank is thinner. It may seem like the same thing but it isn't.

 

[Ian H]

I think it's both, particularly on the lower-tensioned, non-drive side of the rear wheel. The elbow is better supported in a tightly-fitting hole (fnaar alert). I do tap the elbows to make a snug fit against the flange.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I think it's both, particularly on the lower-tensioned, non-drive side of the rear wheel. The elbow is better supported in a tightly-fitting hole (fnaar alert). I do tap the elbows to make a snug fit against the flange.

What do you mean by support?

 

[Ian H]

If the part between elbow and spoke-head is tightly held it removes one potential source of flex in the spoke.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

If the part between elbow and spoke-head is tightly held it removes one potential source of flex in the spoke.

It is tightly held by tension. The flex (flattening) of a wheel in use is in the order of 1/10th of a millimeter. This is taken up by elastic return of the stretched spoke long before the head moves inside the flange. Should the spokes compress so much that the head moves inside the flange, then the nipple side is loose too and nipples would rattle and come loose after just a few revolutions. This does not happen. There are some corrections that a wheelbuilder can make to reduce flex at the elbow (not inside the flange) but those have nothing to do with elbow thickness.

 

[Ian H]

You may well be right, but I do have a suspicion, just from general engineering principles, that a snug fit is better.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

You may well be right, but I do have a suspicion, just from general engineering principles, that a snug fit is better.

Examination beats suspicious every time in Paper Rock Scissors.

Have a look at these two diagrams of spokes smaller than the flange hole. The unmodified one on the left is how most wheelbuilders leave their wheels - incomplete. A good example is in Raleighnut's photo of a wheel above. There is a large cantilever where the spoke exits the flange.

In the modified picture, the cantilever is removed, eliminating flex in what is an unsupported section on the left. In addition to removing the cantilever, the process on the right also stress-relieves the joint and (not shown in the picture) presses a large supporting radius for the spoke in the flange in the botom, right hand side, further reducing localised stresses.

If you now go and change the picture on the left and put a thicker spoke in there, you will still end up with the cantilever and, you won't be able to flatten the spoke like in the Modified picture.

2mm butt thickness is perfect. Spoke holes are drilled to 2.3 and 2.4mm (depending on manufacturer) and that is the perfect match for a 2mm spoke, leving just enough space for the modification. It is difficult enough to do the modification, yet alone with thicker spokes.