Seeking advice on Dawes Sardar touring bike on ebay

[22camels]

Looking for some input on this bike I've been considering
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171260262894?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDXT
and perhaps some general advice about buying a bike on eBay even if not this one.

I need a steel expedition touring bike with 26in wheels, this fits the bill (the ad says 27in wheels but I am sure it means 26in). The size could well be right - it's a 22in frame, I'm 5ft11 with 84cm inseam, so it might be too large (the Sardar is known for having a very long top tube) but it has flat handlebars that shorten the reach and with some adjustments it may well work. I'm pretty new to eBay, the seller, has been trading for 8 years, has a solid looking feedback history, but obviously has no clue about bikes (says I can adjust the seat to suit my height when I asked him about size!). Says he picked this up at an auction, guess just to sell it on as it doesn't sound like he's ridden it much. Rings bells, but it's not implausible and he is quite helpful and upfront in his responses to the few questions I've asked. I am thinking of going to view it before the auction is out. Starting price is 99, I think if it fits and looks in decent nick I'd be tempted to take it if it doesn't go above 200. These bikes go for up to 400 second hand.

I am actually thinking, whilst I know a bit about bikes, I might take it for a test ride to the nearest bike shop a few minutes away to ask them to take a very quick look at its condition. Sounds silly, but it's reasonable enough no? I need to know how much, if anything, I will need to spend post-purchase on getting it into the right condition. Dawes Sardar specs from various years when it was produced (2002-2008 I gather) are hard to find. Going from the colour, I think it's a 2006 model, possibly 2004, with the bars having been swapped out to MTB bars. Other than the specs listed in the ad, I have been informed the rims are Mavic XM 114 - I suspect this means XM 117 as I couldn't find 114. Pedals/crank are Sun Race apparently. Can't figure out the stem/headset brand from the photos. Do the specs seem ok?

I probably won't take it for the reason that I am in no hurry at all, and so should take more time in choosing the bike that I will need to trust for an 18 month trip across Asia which is still quite a way off, plus I have a bike already, a carbon fork Tricross, which will undoubtedly fail at some point on a fully loaded tour, but I can deal with that as it comes. The options for 26in steel and on a max 1000 budget, are limited: off the shelf we have the Surly LHT, the new Ridgeback Expedition, and perhaps a low spec Thorn Sherpa, plus there are a few custom outfitters (Paul Hewitt and Oxford Bike Works come to mind). It would be great to pick one up for under 500 on eBay though, which is where the Dawes Sardar, kind of a 26in Galaxy, often compared to the LHT, comes in. It seems like a great bike and does come up second hand fairly often, so I'm kind of thinking I should probably view this one just so I have a better idea about these bikes if I happen to see one again in the future.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Nigeyy]

Well, I'll weigh in.....

I have a Dawes Sardar, and it's my favourite touring bike, I love the thing (so perhaps I'm not going to be unbiased here)

Anyway, really it comes down to 3 things: i. whether its fit for purpose (i.e. no cracks, structural issues in the frame), ii. whether its the right size for you (doesn't matter how good it is, if it doesn't fit...would you buy a pair of shoes to wear if they were too big or small?) and of course, price based on condition and components.

So yes, if you don't have mechanical expertise, go to a bike shop for a second opinion -though careful examination of the frame should tell you if there are obvious structural problems before you even do this. Really the question of components is tough to answer -it all depends on how much you might have to pay for it and the condition of the drivechain. From what I can see of the photos it looks decently specced (LX, Deore components with Mavic rims and Easton handlebars -they are all name brands).

All I can say is what I'd do -which is I'd definitely look at it -as, like I said, I'm unabashedly a Dawes Sardar fan. My perception is these bikes aren't as common to find now, so you may have a problem finding another one. Maybe this might just come down to happenstance -if you have some free time, if you're in the area, etc, etc. go for it. Well, good luck!

 

[22camels]

Thanks for the suggestions! I wasn't sure if my question was too vaguely worded or perhaps I should have put it on the Bike Buying advice subsection as that's where most eBay related posts seem to be..

Yes it does sound like a great bike on paper, maybe the fact it's not made any more somewhat adds to its cachet..

My questions stated more precisely are

a) does the ad seem somewhat dodgy given the seller says they got it in an auction and knows nothing of its history or about bikes in general? I guess at the least this puts more onus on the buyer to do their research properly and check the bike thoroughly.

b) fit issues. I gather the Sardar only comes in 3 sizes: small 18in / medium 20in / large 22in. I suspect I am somewhere between the medium and the large. I am used to drop handlebars but am not really opposed to flat bars (or other type). The bike in question has had stock drop bars swapped out to flat bars, but I might want to swap it back to drops at some point. I have heard it said that if you are getting a bike with flat bars, you should go for a size a bit larger than the size with drop bars. I am not sure I really believe this as if you spend all your time in the hoods the reach should be similar to the flat bar reach. What's the deal here? Is it possible I'll find the bike fits well with flat bars, but fits badly with drop bars? My other concern is, whilst you can get a new bike with an uncut steerer, most used bikes will have cut steerers, does this limit what adjustments I can make to the fit? I know the length and angle of the stem can be changed, and if a longer steerer is really required one can get a headset raiser but I'd rather not have to bother with the latter.

c) if I like this bike when I test ride it, but don't get it because either I just want to take my time more, or it's out of my current budget (my eventual budget stretches to around 1000 but at this point in time I don't want to be paying much more than 200 especially for a used bike with a few unknowns..), how likely am I to find another one in the next 18 months? I too get the feeling they are becoming pretty rare..

d) I have a reasonable idea what to look for, but how can I quantify more accurately the amount of wear in a used bike - the drivetrain, wheels etc. ? I don't want to be paying 200 thinking it's a good deal, to then have to spend another 400 to bring it up to the equivalent of a new bike.. I may as well get a new bike at that rate. This one is particularly tricky as the seller knows nothing of its history. From the frame number he gave me I emailed Dawes who said it's a 2004 Sardar. God knows how much mileage was put on it and how many component replacements it underwent, and if it was well looked after, how did it end up at an auction? How much knowledge about the wear will I be able to gather just by looking at it and asking a bike shop to look at it for 5 minutes?

 

[toekneep]

It's a big gamble buying a whole bike that old off Ebay. If the wheels and tyres are shot then you're looking at spending the same as you do on the bike to replace them with decent touring ones straight away. Have you put the feelers out with your local bike shops for a bike or frame that you could build up? I had a frame build a few years ago and could only afford to build it up with a hotch potch of components that I intended to replace quite quickly with better stuff. It's done about 5000 miles since then and is about to do another 5000 this summer. I have put better wheels on it but that's all.
On the other hand, people do long tours in remote places on the most basic of second hand bikes and any issues that arise are just part of the adventure. Take a look at this for example: http://aroundtheworldbyaccident.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[toekneep]

Sorry I should qualify that. If you read that blog post you might get the wrong impression. I was simply referring to the fact that Dean could get his frame welded locally. That weld is still going strong as well, as far as I know.

 

[Nigeyy]

Thanks for the suggestions! I wasn't sure if my question was too vaguely worded or perhaps I should have put it on the Bike Buying advice subsection as that's where most eBay related posts seem to be..

Yes it does sound like a great bike on paper, maybe the fact it's not made any more somewhat adds to its cachet..

My questions stated more precisely are

a) does the ad seem somewhat dodgy given the seller says they got it in an auction and knows nothing of its history or about bikes in general? I guess at the least this puts more onus on the buyer to do their research properly and check the bike thoroughly.

b) fit issues. I gather the Sardar only comes in 3 sizes: small 18in / medium 20in / large 22in. I suspect I am somewhere between the medium and the large. I am used to drop handlebars but am not really opposed to flat bars (or other type). The bike in question has had stock drop bars swapped out to flat bars, but I might want to swap it back to drops at some point. I have heard it said that if you are getting a bike with flat bars, you should go for a size a bit larger than the size with drop bars. I am not sure I really believe this as if you spend all your time in the hoods the reach should be similar to the flat bar reach. What's the deal here? Is it possible I'll find the bike fits well with flat bars, but fits badly with drop bars? My other concern is, whilst you can get a new bike with an uncut steerer, most used bikes will have cut steerers, does this limit what adjustments I can make to the fit? I know the length and angle of the stem can be changed, and if a longer steerer is really required one can get a headset raiser but I'd rather not have to bother with the latter.

c) if I like this bike when I test ride it, but don't get it because either I just want to take my time more, or it's out of my current budget (my eventual budget stretches to around 1000 but at this point in time I don't want to be paying much more than 200 especially for a used bike with a few unknowns..), how likely am I to find another one in the next 18 months? I too get the feeling they are becoming pretty rare..

d) I have a reasonable idea what to look for, but how can I quantify more accurately the amount of wear in a used bike - the drivetrain, wheels etc. ? I don't want to be paying 200 thinking it's a good deal, to then have to spend another 400 to bring it up to the equivalent of a new bike.. I may as well get a new bike at that rate. This one is particularly tricky as the seller knows nothing of its history. From the frame number he gave me I emailed Dawes who said it's a 2004 Sardar. God knows how much mileage was put on it and how many component replacements it underwent, and if it was well looked after, how did it end up at an auction? How much knowledge about the wear will I be able to gather just by looking at it and asking a bike shop to look at it for 5 minutes?

The ad does not seem that dodgy to me. However you would get a clearer picture of that if you talk with the owner (Ionce bought a Trek bike for around twenty quid -I had my suspicions until I met and talked with the seller -it had a layer of grime from sitting in a garage and they just wanted to get rid of it )

You really will not know about fit until you try it -there is no easier way of saying this. And yes, there is a certain amount of wiggle room with the stem and seat post height. Point is, you may find it perfect -but again you will not know this until you try it. How likely is it you will find another one? I honestly do not know. They are not made anymore, but I am sure you will find one again..... The problem is when?

There are a couple of things you can do to check the drive chain:
1. Look at the teeth of the gears -if they are moe sharply pointed, forget this bike unless they want. To give it away; drive chains can be expensive!
2. Assuming it passes 1., Do not forget the really easy option -ride it! If thegearsskip, particularly when you put load on it, it is likely the gears are worn or it is badly adjusted. This is where a bike shop could help you.
3. Finally, for a really quick and easy test of chain wear, get a chain wear tester -they are very cheap and will give you a quantitative idea as to the chain condition.

P.s. until you see the bike, I think you are over thinking this bit.

 

[Bodhbh]

If it's for an 18month trip I probably would go new or build myself. You don't know how close various bits are to failing. You'll get thru a drivetrain at least anyhow and that'll already have wear on it. Plus I'd want a handbuilt backwheel so that doesn't start playing up.

Regarding the seller 'having no clue about bikes'. Don't fall for that! I have in other areas than bikes on eBay, and you end up shooting yourself in the foot talking yourself into thinking you must be getting bargain.

 

[22camels]

"It's a big gamble buying a whole bike that old off Ebay. If the wheels and tyres are shot then you're looking at spending the same as you do on the bike to replace them with decent touring ones straight away."
Yes that's exactly the sort of thing I am worried about!

"until you see the bike, I think you are over thinking this bit."
I know I am making it too complicated!

"Plus I'd want a handbuilt backwheel so that doesn't start playing up."
OK so say I buy new, how much of a difference over a 20,000km trip will there be between a factory-built wheel retensioned by the shop or a wheel specialist, versus a hand-built wheel? I guess hand-built wheels add around 200 to the price of a new bike.. Is it really worth it?

Thanks for all the tips! I don't think I'll bother with this bike, but will keep looking..

 

[Jerry Atrik]

I have a Tricross which I have used for light touring and a Sardar . I love my Tricross which I use daily but the Sardar is in a different league when it comes to touring . I have owned both models of the Sardar , the original steel drop bar 26 inch wheel bike and the later Alu frame 26 inch flat bar bike , both have their great points but I wouldn't part with my Alu framed bike now . If you can find one grab it .

 

[EltonFrog]

I have a Tricross which I have used for light touring and a Sardar . I love my Tricross which I use daily but the Sardar is in a different league when it comes to touring . I have owned both models of the Sardar , the original steel drop bar 26 inch wheel bike and the later Alu frame 26 inch flat bar bike , both have their great points but I wouldn't part with my Alu framed bike now . If you can find one grab it .

Sorry to go off topic, but where was the photo of the bike on that canal bridge taken?

 

[Bodhbh]

[quote="22camels, post: 2972304, member: 34901"Plus I'd want a handbuilt backwheel so that doesn't start playing up."
OK so say I buy new, how much of a difference over a 20,000km trip will there be between a factory-built wheel retensioned by the shop or a wheel specialist, versus a hand-built wheel? I guess hand-built wheels add around 200 to the price of a new bike.. Is it really worth it?[/quote]
I imagine a retensioned wheel pretty much the same as a handbuilt...well apart from the handbuilt you choose no of spokes and the components from scratch. I've had several factory builts start popping spokes, but assume it's as they were never tensioned right in the first place. Regarding price, Spa built me a rear wheel for just over 100 quid - my LBS charged 30 quid to retension the spokes (and had a 2 week waiting list). So I just thought sod it and got a new one.

 

[22camels]

I see.. so if I do go on to get handbuilt wheels (or retensioned factory-built ones), it's OK to just get the rear wheel done right? The front wheel doesn't come under as much stress..

 

[Bodhbh]

I see.. so if I do go on to get handbuilt wheels (or retensioned factory-built ones), it's OK to just get the rear wheel done right? The front wheel doesn't come under as much stress..

I'm no expert, but it's something like 2/3rds the weight on the back, a 1/3rd on the front? I've never had a front wheel go, but had 3 back ones pop spokes is all I know!

 

[Jerry Atrik]

The photo was on the Nantes - Brest Canal near Carhaix Plouger .

 

[EltonFrog]

The photo was on the Nantes - Brest Canal near Carhaix Plouger .

Thank you.