'Road rage' van driver [Adrian Burrows] punched cyclist in the face for not using a bike path

[Binky]

Regarding cycle lanes, I use them sometimes depending upon situation and condition of said lanes. Some are excellent, debris free and by far best option if next to a busy main road. Because of area where I live there aren't many anyway. As for car use, where I live which is in a quiet rural coastal area so without a car I'd be severely limited. Bus service between local villages is OK but anywhere else no so a car for my needs is pretty much essential. I ride my bike for fun and exercise but for general transport it's the car. I would guess similar to a lot of people.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Where we live there are a few buses but the ones within walking distance for my wife are about one every 2 hours
and only go into town or to a local housing estate
to get into another town or to the train station we would have to do into town and then get another bus
we have never bothered - we use the car because of it

We may start using buses a bit more next year when we get a bus pass
partly the change is because I don;t even have a clue how to pay for a bus - apparently it changes depending on the company as the local bus company folded well before 2020
if you use them all teh time you pay for a "thing" and just use it
but for a one off trip - when I have looked it up I have just got confused

getting the train is bad enough

the days when you could just turn up and get on and lob some coins at someone seem to have gone!

 

[Fastpedaller]

Where we live there are a few buses but the ones within walking distance for my wife are about one every 2 hours
and only go into town or to a local housing estate
to get into another town or to the train station we would have to do into town and then get another bus
we have never bothered - we use the car because of it

We may start using buses a bit more next year when we get a bus pass
partly the change is because I don;t even have a clue how to pay for a bus - apparently it changes depending on the company as the local bus company folded well before 2020
if you use them all teh time you pay for a "thing" and just use it
but for a one off trip - when I have looked it up I have just got confused

getting the train is bad enough

the days when you could just turn up and get on and lob some coins at someone seem to have gone!

I can get to our town 2.5 miles away on a Tuesday on the bus ..... and then return on Thursday . My Wife tells me I should apply for my free bus pass, but I'm not sure it would be worthwhile. Fortunately we have the disused railway path which I cycle or walk to get to town. To walk along the roads to Town would be very hazardous

 

[mjr]

As for car use, where I live which is in a quiet rural coastal area so without a car I'd be severely limited. Bus service between local villages is OK but anywhere else no so a car for my needs is pretty much essential.

We shouldn't compare today's car use to today's post-Beeching train services and post-privatisation Thatcher-deregulated mess of bus routes, which consist of commercial routes cherry-picking the most profitable areas, distorted by trying to hoover up bus pass users and "front-running" competitors, and subsidised routes decided by a council cabinet member, usually from elsewhere in the county, on the advice of an understaffed council "department" (often just part of one officer).

What we need to try to imagine is how today's car use compares to the public transport service we would have if so many people weren't conned into doing extra unpaid driving work every day. I was in outer London this week (travelled there by train) and I looked up how to get from my hotel in one suburban centre to a venue a few miles away and the app (Öffi, which works in many countries but strangely not reliably in West Norfolk) said there were buses about every 7 or 8 minutes. Then I noticed I hadn't set the departure time and that was at 11.30pm! In the morning peak, I wouldn't have to wait more than 5 minutes for the next bus and most often about 3... as it happened, a bus left the stop as I walked out of the nearby shopping centre, but the next suitable one arrived as I reached the stop. That is how buses should work. Not the irregular-spaced 8am-5.30pm hourly-ish same-number-but-varying-route rubbish we suffer in the regions.

We can get some idea by looking at a fair country that uses a mix of buses, trams and trains to give most people reasonable options for most journeys, whether or not they can drive. Something a bit like London but even better. Like certain European areas, mostly centred on cities.

Then maybe courts would more often disqualify road ragers like the one in the opening post, judges would not let so many drivers get away with pleadng "exceptional hardship" when they accumulate 12 penalty points, and government wouldn't be driving so many healthcare staff into their graves by providing no useful public transport at most shift changes at most NHS sites!

 

[Binky]

You seem to be on some sort of political rant there but all I will say is whilst of course better public transport be great, I chose to live where I do so I'm not blaming anyone for not providing a bus that runs outside my front door to every location I might want to go to. There are somewhat limited options for me and I can get to towns etc should I want to but it's how long that might take.
Case in point, last week I drove to train station to pick up daughter. Took me 20-25 mins to drive there. By bus be one hour 50mins due to circular coast route the bus service takes. Then of course similar back.

On the rare occasion I go to London I'm actually impressed with transport options to get around be it tube or bus or even trains.

Anyway, think we've veered off original point of this thread.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Cost is another problem
WHen we have considered going places some distance away we have sometimes looked at using the train

but when you add up the cost of two tickets and compare it to the cost of petrol and parking
then the car comes out cheaper - often by quite a lot

if we are going somewhere for a few days and have to factor in a hotel - then the ability to drive out of the central area makes the difference even greater

 

[BoldonLad]

Where we live there are a few buses but the ones within walking distance for my wife are about one every 2 hours
and only go into town or to a local housing estate
to get into another town or to the train station we would have to do into town and then get another bus
we have never bothered - we use the car because of it

We may start using buses a bit more next year when we get a bus pass
partly the change is because I don;t even have a clue how to pay for a bus - apparently it changes depending on the company as the local bus company folded well before 2020
if you use them all teh time you pay for a "thing" and just use it
but for a one off trip - when I have looked it up I have just got confused

getting the train is bad enough

the days when you could just turn up and get on and lob some coins at someone seem to have gone!

Locally, you can pay your bus fare with your phone (applepay, googlepay, etc).

As for the train, I sometimes travel with a pal, who claims to be “clued up”, there have been a couple of disasters. I have steered clear of making a fool myself. 😂

 

[Profpointy]

Think you'll find the 150 hours thing is a real punishment.
My experience is only as an observer of this process.

It's about 20 working days to find and deal with the system, whilst doing some restorative work.

Having to do a month's work without pay does send a decent message. The guy will have to give up 10 weekends or best part of a year's worth of holiday allowance simply to fit the time in.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Case in point, last week I drove to train station to pick up daughter. Took me 20-25 mins to drive there. By bus be one hour 50mins

Your daughter could hsve just caught bus home, and it wouldn’t take all that long given circular nature. Less than the 50 mins it took you.

 

[mjr]

Cost is another problem
WHen we have considered going places some distance away we have sometimes looked at using the train but when you add up the cost of two tickets and compare it to the cost of petrol and parking
then the car comes out cheaper - often by quite a lot

But that's not how train prices usually work for anything but the shortest journeys or at peak times. More often, you buy an annual discount card and get two discounted tickets, or you buy some sort of area (ranger or rover) tickets with boundary extensions, or a group ticket. Like for my trip this week, my wife already had a Network Railcard, which allows a group of up to four adults (including her) and four children to buy discounted tickets within the south and east. Previously we had a "Two Together Railcard" but that's not worth renewing until next trip outside the SE.

Of course, pricing should be simpler and cheaper. Ideally something like the Netherlands tap-on-tap-off nationwide system, combined with a "best price guarantee". But it's not and trying to treat it like it is will either see you pay more than you should, or avoid taking the train because you think it'll be more expensive than it is.

And it's also ignoring the cost of driving time. Maybe your time is worthless and you work for free, but mine isn't.

Then there's all the money and time costs of keeping a car, but until public transport works well enough again, we're stuck with most of them whether we use it or not. Only servicing becomes less frequent.

You seem to be on some sort of political rant there but all I will say is whilst of course better public transport be great, I chose to live where I do so I'm not blaming anyone for not providing a bus that runs outside my front door to every location I might want to go to.

Political rant maybe, but it's not party political because I don't think any of the current leading parties have a credible plan to fix this everywhere, and it's transport-related because of course bikes should be how we get lots more people to travel hubs, enough people so that public transport works in even pretty low-density areas, in line with this video's ideas:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOkN255il7U

but all I will say is whilst of course better public transport be great, I chose to live where I do so I'm not blaming anyone for not providing a bus that runs outside my front door to every location I might want to go to. [...] drove to train station to pick up daughter. Took me 20-25 mins to drive there. By bus be one hour 50mins [...]

Not every location, but taking people to and from train stations seems like something that should be well-served and 1h50 is not a viable travel service. I think some experts set the limit at 30 minutes, but I'd relax that slightly in rural areas.

You take the high ground and not blame people. Let me blame your local council for you: they sound utterly incompetent at delivering useful public transport!

Anyway, think we've veered off original point of this thread.

A bit. I believe it's linked because until we have viable alternatives to driving for most people, judges, juries and prosecutors will be among those who hesitate to stop people driving who really ought not to be driving, so we see weak sentences like this example. And cycling would be much safer if we got those people away from the steering wheel before someone gets hurt, whether by punishment or simply by enticing them not to drive.

 

[Binky]

Your daughter could hsve just caught bus home, and it wouldn’t take all that long given circular nature. Less than the 50 mins it took you.

Wrong. It would take 1 HR 50 mins to get home. Maybe read posts first.
Yeah she could have taken bus but I chose to pick her up. Hope that's ok with you.

 

[mjr]

Wrong. It would take 1 HR 50 mins to get home. Maybe read posts first.

So the whole circular route takes 3h40 for a bus to do a full loop and your home and the station are exactly opposite, so 1h50 each side of the loop? I think it's understandable if such a stupidly long circular bus route surprises even people who read the post.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Wrong. It would take 1 HR 50 mins to get home. Maybe read posts first.
Yeah she could have taken bus but I chose to pick her up. Hope that's ok with you.

No, you said 1 hour 50 mins mins to get there due to circular nature. Thus shorter coming back.

 

[matticus]

You seem to be on some sort of political rant there but all I will say is whilst of course better public transport be great, I chose to live where I do so I'm not blaming anyone for not providing a bus that runs outside my front door to every location I might want to go to.

Would you have moved there if you had - for example - a degenerative eye condition?
Or if you knew fuel taxation would soon make driving unviable?
(Or if you thought personal ICE-transportation was bad for everyone else, including your kids and grandchildren sorry, ignore that, bit political talking about our grandchildren, oops! )

 

[Binky]

No, you said 1 hour 50 mins mins to get there due to circular nature. Thus shorter coming back.

Lol. Honestly I think I know. I'll explain for what it's worth. As I arrived a few minutes early I was standing near platform so I actually looked at bus timetable. To get back was indeed, wait for it, 1hr 50.
Also seeing as her journey time up to that point was 6hrs 30 mins I thought another nigh on 2 hrs she could probably do without.

As for time each way, it's due to literally going all over the place to get to little coastal villages etc. So yeah, takes a while

Hence car use.