'Road rage' van driver [Adrian Burrows] punched cyclist in the face for not using a bike path

[mjr]

There’s definitely a mixed bag but there’s at least 50% that are sub optimal ranging from not very good to dangerous and awful. The problem this leads to is the issue in the OP. Because they are everywhere and a large enough percentage are poor then it seems to make drivers very cross when they’re not being used to the point of assault. On balance, I’d rather not have any.

If there are no cycleways, drivers still abuse and assault cyclists. Some drivers are just too angry, which is understandable because driving is nothing like the adverts, but those drivers need removing, not the cycleways. It's not the cycleways that assaulted anyone.

 

[markemark]

If there are no cycleways, drivers still abuse and assault cyclists. Some drivers are just too angry, which is understandable because driving is nothing like the adverts, but those drivers need removing, not the cycleways. It's not the cycleways that assaulted anyone.

Not sure I fully agree. It just separates on occasion and then pushes you back sometimes. Making cyclists part of the traffic and not separate I feel will help in the long run. It will dissipate the entitlement of roads being for cars.

 

[mjr]

they rarely do report any arguments made against the mitigation claims. Whether or not such arguments were made.



150 hours is right at the top of the scale if the harm level was 3, or the bottom if it was considered to be level 2. But certainly within the guidelines either way.



No driving offence was charged, so that is not within the power of the magistrate. The offence charged was Assault causing Actual Bodily Harm.

And the sentencing guidelines for that offence appear to have been followed.

I don't dispute any of that, but you asked how it sends the message that asaulting cyclists isn't really punished.

 

[mjr]

Not sure I fully agree. It just separates on occasion and then pushes you back sometimes. Making cyclists part of the traffic and not separate I feel will help in the long run.

That would mean mainly the brave cycle, like London main roads 20ish years ago. Far fewer than now. Nowhere ever achieved mass cycling without spaces where people can cycle and motorists can't drive.

 

[matticus]

Not sure I fully agree. It just separates on occasion and then pushes you back sometimes. Making cyclists part of the traffic and not separate I feel will help in the long run. It will dissipate the entitlement of roads being for cars.

I see why you say that, but in reality drivers in the Netherlands don't get all sh1tty when a cyclist delays them; as mjr says, the [UK] drivers are just too angry. They need to control that anger, or face legal consequences.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

the drivers are just too angry. They need to control that anger, or face legal consequences.

There is a really unpleasant undercurrent of rage in UK road interactions (not just with cyclists). IME you just don't get the same hair trigger response to frustration leading direct to rage and then worse in some cases, like this one, anywhere else I've been on the road. It could just be bias on my part, but I've cycled in more than a dozen European countries in the past year, and the roads feel more aggressive here than anywhere else.

 

[mjr]

There is a really unpleasant undercurrent of rage in UK road interactions (not just with cyclists). IME you just don't get the same hair trigger response to frustration leading direct to rage and then worse in some cases, like this one, anywhere else I've been on the road. It could just be bias on my part, but I've cycled in more than a dozen European countries in the past year, and the roads feel more aggressive here than anywhere else.

It was a long time ago now, but Florida was worse for driver rage. Worse than famously snappy New York.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

Back when I was a youngster in the 70s and early 80s, it wasn't common to have more than one vehicle per home, but now it's far more common for each home to have one vehicle per adult and for any kids aged 17+ still at home.

It's no wonder the drivers are more angry, there's far more cars on the road, the promise of the feeling of freedom when driving is so rare these days that us cyclists still get to enjoy once we escape suburbia. Driving at/near the speed limit is a dream for many in the UK, far more likely to be stuck in slow traffic or jams.

But so many drivers look at everyone else to make the changes to make their journeys quicker, by using public transport and/or bikes, rather than themselves.

Yet all these road rage incidents increase the likelihood of a cyclist using a car for trips, slowing down the motor traffic further, providing the cyclist is still alive after such an incident.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

It's no wonder the drivers are more angry, there's far more cars on the road, the promise of the feeling of freedom when driving is so rare these days that us cyclists still get to enjoy once we escape suburbia. Driving at/near the speed limit is a dream for many in the UK, far more likely to be stuck in slow traffic or jams.

This is all true.

But.

The same, or worse driving conditions in Genoa, Pristina, Budpest etc do NOT cause the same rage and anger. It's every bit as frustrating, often more chaotic, but much more good natured IME. Brits seem to do hairtrigger outrage and intimidation of road users in a way other countries just don't.

 

[Alex321]

I don't dispute any of that, but you asked how it sends the message that asaulting cyclists isn't really punished.

Which you didn't answer.

BTW "cyclists" here is pretty well irrelevant, beyond the fact that most of us here take more interest because it was a cyclist who was attacked, and what started it.

But it wasn't prosecuted as a traffic offence of any sort, it was prosecuted as assault, and would have been just the same regardless of whether the victim was a cyclist, a pedestrian, or another motorist.

 

[Alex321]

This is a derisory penalty for offence of assault, criminal damage and dangerous driving. Shows how ridiculous some of the legal system is when others get jailed for posting offensive stuff on internet!

Note I'm definitely not condoning either but hardly sends out a message does it.

He wasn't charged with any driving offence, only with assault causing ABH and criminal damage.

The sentencing was inline with the guidelines. You may well feel those guidelines are wrong, but it was very much inline with what other people will have got for punching somebody in the face and throwing their property around.

 

[Binky]

Yeah well said guidelines need a rethink.

 

[Pblakeney]

There is a really unpleasant undercurrent of rage in UK road interactions (not just with cyclists). IME you just don't get the same hair trigger response to frustration leading direct to rage and then worse in some cases, like this one, anywhere else I've been on the road. It could just be bias on my part, but I've cycled in more than a dozen European countries in the past year, and the roads feel more aggressive here than anywhere else.

As a driver I say this is very true, and certainly not confined to cyclists.
As a cyclist perceptions are raised due to potential danger.

 

[Gwylan]

Having read it I can't see anything about penalty points / a ban / needing to re-take his test / needing anger management.

So there's basically very little punishment here and the message is "go punch a cyclist".

Think you'll find the 150 hours thing is a real punishment.
My experience is only as an observer of this process.

It's about 20 working days to find and deal with the system, whilst doing some restorative work.

 

[blackrat]

It was a long time ago now, but Florida was worse for driver rage. Worse than famously snappy New York.

Evidence for that?