Road Cycling Safety BBC radio 5 discussion

[nigelnorris]

Of course, on junctions like this, it is easier said than done. Could you change your route to avoid it? That might be the best option. My route to work is not as direct as it could be, just to avoid places where I wouldn't be comfortable.

Ohmygosh what a completely obvious piece of advice that has escaped me.

I have got into work the last few days after commuting in the sunshine, and talking to the guys who drive and get there before me have sat about in the staffroom saying how I'd like to increase the length of my ride to burn off a few more calories. And I've been so full of how quick I can do my route now, and how I'd like to add ten miles or something because that sounds meaningful, that the obvious tactic of pedalling an extra quarter mile to avoid a junction has passed me by.

I'm sure that sounds stupid to you old hands but I've just learned a real lesson. Thanks.

 

[HJ]

To a degree: But I would argue that the point at which an impatient motorist is at their most impatient is approaching a set of green traffic lights which might turn red!!! If they are 'held up' by a cyclist in primary they are more likely to try and get past at an innapropriate point. ie try & left hook...

I find that holding a strong primary position is the best way to stop drivers from trying to over take and left hook...

 

[HLaB]

To a degree: But I would argue that the point at which an impatient motorist is at their most impatient is approaching a set of green traffic lights which might turn red!!! If they are 'held up' by a cyclist in primary they are more likely to try and get past at an innapropriate point. ie try & left hook.

I know where you are coming from, you kind of gain a 6th sense of idiots like that. I've found the only way to deal with them is to hold a primary position and anticipate the green/ accelerate faster and leave them sitting there (its even better if they stall).

 

[HLaB]

I (confession here) go the wrong way down a one-way street in order to use the level crossing at the end of the one-way bit. The alternative is rat-run road bridge where motorists always try and overtake before the blind summit.

I'm not loosing too much sleep over this as it used to be two-way but was changed to force motorists to use the bridge which has made it more difficult for cyclists. And as it used to be two lanes they could just as easily have left a cycle lane in on the route, there's more than enough space.

I must admit I cycle the wrong way down a one way street regularly too . Leaving the works garage. I've got the choice of 50m of level cobbles and a left turn on to 75m of nicely surfaced road. Or 150m of cobbles with lots of badly parked cars to turn right at a busy road to 60m of more cobbles which sharply go down hill to an even busier junction, then a right turn and 200m back to the same point. I think I'll take the 1st option on Monday.

 

[fossyant]

Just a quick post...

Most half decent cyclists are faster off the mark than 'most cars' easily.....

I can pedal, clip in (and even fluff it), accelerate to ride speed, and I've usually covered at least 100-200 yards before the car catches me, and that's on the now knobbly tyred MTB.....

Now shove a Scooby up me ass, I'll have my road bikes with some fella holding me up (clipped in) to try and out sprint one on them.....

So why need to jump.

I will admit to stopping in front of the ASL on 'certain' junctions where folk block an obvious ASL ....still takes the idiots 200 plus yards to pass me....from go......

 

[cheadle hulme]

There is no need to do that either. Just slot a couple of cars back from the front. I've been doing it for a few years now and I've never had any problems.

Didn't you post a vid of you doing exactly this and then the car you'd slotted in in front of passed you with inches to spare? (escort iirc).

I never have problems moving directly to the front. That way the first driver doesn't feel they've been singled out for special attention ala your Escort driver.

 

[hackbike 666]

Do you run red lights? NO
Cycle the wrong way up one-way streets? NO
Give hand signals when turning? YES
Do you find when at lights traffic is very aggresive when the lights change to green? NO

+1

 

[Nigeyy]

I know I might sound like a typical person trying to justify it, but I do believe it is different over here (I haven't found a place in the UK where I thought I needed to run a red for better safety fyi). Everyone ultimately makes a choice -and I do believe you should make a choice that you firmly believe carries greater personal safety for yourself. You have to analyze and react to the situation.

And yes, motorcyclists are at the same or very similar risk of being rear ended as well. I used to ride motorcycles -but I wouldn't want to do it over here for that reason and others, plus the wife might not take to kindly to it.....

I will say I don't want it to sound like New England streets are deathtraps -fortunately the widths of roads (more room to swerve, seriously), generally lower speeds and lower traffic density make up for a lot. It can be extremely pleasant cycling over here as well.

Nigeyy, I see your point, but I don't think it really applies here. Of course it could happen, but I would suggest that the risks of running a red light are greater than being rear ended.

Would motorcyclists not be at the same risk or rear-ending?

 

[summerdays]

I really don't understand this. I can see that in very heavy slow traffic it might be worthwhile, but generally speaking I can't see the point. The number of times I see cyclists cut through to the front of a queue of traffic - often dangerously - just to get away first on the red & amber, when all they achieve is to arrive at the other side of the junction with all the traffic bunching up behind them because they're only faster for the first 100 yards.

Just seems calculated to encourage close overtakes and irritate idiot drivers, and to show the same 'must get ahead' mentality motorists are often criticised for.

If prefer to not hang around at junctions, I would rather any car over took me a little further down the road. If I have held up a car where I didn't think it was safe for them to overtake and I can do so safely I will move over towards the kerb to encourage them to overtake.

If I'm several cars back in the queue (which I will do), then I have to accelerate at the cars pace... very slow from stationary and then quickly they are going faster than me but held up behind me at the junction if I'm in primary which I will be in a queue of traffic at the lights.

I also think you are more visible in the ASL, where as in the queue sometimes the car (well usually larger vehicle) in front hides you from on coming traffic waiting to turn right thinking there is a gap.

And I don't start until it goes green.

 

[downfader]

There is a comments section on the 5Live website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/fivelivebreakfast/2009/05/saving_lives_on_our_roads.html#dnaacs

I have left two comments myself.

I also noticed this letter in the local paper the other day. It caught my attention after having seen something similar within the week. Some people just have no sense of the problems they cause other people:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/yoursay/deletters/4349538.Shame_on_you__cyclist/

I really think we can do our bit on this. If we find out that someone is going to start riding a bike to work then we can encourage them to read the HC and we should offer them advice and encouragement.

 

[magnatom]

Didn't you post a vid of you doing exactly this and then the car you'd slotted in in front of passed you with inches to spare? (escort iirc).

I never have problems moving directly to the front. That way the first driver doesn't feel they've been singled out for special attention ala your Escort driver.

Yes I did, but I don't think that had anything to do with me filtering to one car back instead of to the front. I'm sure if I had been at the front and the guy had passed me a bit later, he would have done the same. I don't thnk there was any malice in his overtake, just a very poor driver.

 

[magnatom]

I'm sure that sounds stupid to you old hands but I've just learned a real lesson. Thanks.

Glad to be of help.

 

[thomas]

Just a quick post...

Most half decent cyclists are faster off the mark than 'most cars' easily.....

+1. I can usually beat any car of the mark.

As for red light jumping. I don't do it, and the only reason I would do it would be to save time*. I don't believe that it makes cycling safer.

*(If I was to red light jump and be honest, that's the reason - not because it is safer).

 

[downfader]

RLJ... There is a junction here at Thomas Lewis Way iirc is the name. Now and again you'll see an RLJ but the fast moving traffic scares the bejesus out of them and they dont do it again. Two blind corners too.

If I'm stuck for time or dont like the driver near me I get off and walk it around safely. I know many see it as cheating, lol!

 

[thomas]

If I'm stuck for time or dont like the driver near me I get off and walk it around safely. I know many see it as cheating, lol!

The lights near work take forever. On my last day before back to UNI I got off and pushed it the hundred yards to where I lock it up, just past the lights. I see no problem with that.